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Large calibre guns

Jason Samson ๐Ÿšซ

A sub-plot I'm exploring is a crackpot setting out to construct the world's biggest gun, and lots of people getting worried about who he's planning to point it at, but the state seemingly unconcerned.

The calibre is easy enough to google. I think the antagonist is doing a nice round 100".

I'm more fuzzy on what the laws are that stop someone doing this today? Why isn't there some race in American back yards to build bigger and bigger guns? Would it really be possible? What laws would stop you, what state would be most friendly?

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Jason Samson

It gets into NFA class three territory after .50 caliber.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

As for the state, none of them can get around the NFA. Though about every southern state is firearms friendly. Tennessee, Texas, and Florida lead that category.

ETA 100" bore would be a cannon and definitely class three NFA destructive device.

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@Jason Samson

Google "Ghost Guns" a recent "Tizzy" about how some individuals have crafted or manufactured firearms in the USA for more than 300 years.

You may craft / manufacture a firearm for your own use (as long as it is not fully automatic aka a Machinegun) and the ATF does not care. A registration number/serial number is only required if you transfer (sell) that weapon to someone else. Magazine capacity may be regulated at the state level.

A "One Hundred Caliber" projectile would be approximately 25.4mm (a Fifty Caliber projectile is 12.7mm; M2HB .50 HMG is 12.7x99mm; however a "Fifty Caliber Pistol" fires a much "stubbyier" projectile, perhaps 12.7x30mm; compare to the typical 9x19mm pistol ammo).

Consider that a .454 Casul pistol or .50 AE "Auto-Mag" are both "Wrist Breakers" and not "concealable" so you are basically crafting an abomination suitable for the Guiness Book of World Records, but not a practical weapon.

Another example is the M82A1 Barret "Light Fifty" AMR (Anti-Material Rifle) in most configurations weighs around 30 pounds (14kg). The M242 Bushmaster Chaingun used in the M2A2 Bradly Fighting Vehicle and several other platforms weighs more than 300 pounds...

The Israeli Mossad is suspected to have assassinate the individual who was manufacturing the "Worlds Largest Gun"; he was a Canadian, developing a gun (cannon) for Saddam Hussein in the late 1980's. The GUN was based upon several "Cross Channel Guns" build by the Nazis c.1941/3 in the Pas de Calais to shell England. It was believed that Saddam Hussein intended to fire chemical projectiles at (in the general direction of) Israel {across Jordan}.

Perhaps Putin would be in the Market? Or, maybe the Hegemon of Uzbekistan? Maybe Mongolia... Ah-Ha! The Dictator of North Korea!

lots of people getting worried about who he's planning to point it at, but the state seemingly unconcerned.

"Celebrities" such as the cackling hens on "The View" or Justin Bieber and other "Has Been" stars might stir some shit. Nobody who actually understands firearms would be concerned.

If it is a "One Hundred Caliber" pistol it is utterly impactable, possibly un-firable unless the firer is wearing Power Armor such as in Heinlein's Starship Troopers. If it is a "Longarm" (aka rifle) it would have to be the size of a small cannon... if it is a Cannon (auto-cannon, Howitzers, or Guns) well, 16" Guns (406mm) Naval Rifles aboard the Iowa class Battleships (and other warships), or even the 18" Guns on the Yamato class Battleships would seem to indicate "You Need To Up Those Numbers!" 100 Calibre? "Those are Rookie Numbers Son!"

Replies:   Remus2  Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Paladin_HGWT

You may craft / manufacture a firearm for your own use (as long as it is not fully automatic aka a Machinegun) and the ATF does not care. A registration number/serial number is only required if you transfer (sell) that weapon to someone else.

While it's true that an individual can make their own firearm legally, they cannot make one that doesn't comply with the NFA. Short barreled shotguns for instance. Rifles or pistols with a bore greater than 0.5" as well. It's not just automatics proscribed.

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Paladin_HGWT

"

You Need To Up Those Numbers!" 100 Calibre? "Those are Rookie Numbers Son!"

I think the antagonist is doing a nice round 100".

The OP stated 100" That's 2,540 mm. That's definitely a cannon.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

The OP stated 100" That's 2,540 mm. That's definitely a cannon.

And it would be larger than any cannon ever built in the real world by a wide margin.

The largest cannon ever built was a 31 inch rail mounted gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

The OP stated 100" That's 2,540 mm. That's definitely a cannon.

I definitely need a new vision test and new reading glasses. I did not notice the " (inches) and only saw 100 Caliber ~ 25.4mm Yup, 100" bore diameter would definitely be the largest. Useless, but largest.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Paladin_HGWT

Yup, 100" bore diameter would definitely be the largest. Useless, but largest.

If you can supply it with enough ammunition it could possibly be useful as a fixed emplacement coastal defense gun.

However, these days missiles would serve that role better.

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

The OP stated 100" That's 2,540 mm. That's definitely a cannon.

I definitely need a new vision test and new reading glasses. I did not notice the " (inches) and only saw 100 Caliber ~ 25.4mm Yup, 100" bore diameter would definitely be the largest. Useless, but largest.

joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Jason Samson

Why isn't there some race in American back yards to build bigger and bigger guns?

Google pumpkin throwing or hurling, obviously not a firearm, but it is conceivably possible to build a 100" canon that avoids the definitions of a firearm.

IF you could grow a pumpkin with a 100" diameter, and you built a tube from which you launched it with compressed air, theoretically it's not a firearm. You might build the tube strong enough to withstand far greater forces, still not an issue. BUT as soon as you place a blackpowder charge in the bottom...

There are many things you can buy easily from non specialist shops perfectly legally, but mixing the right ones in the right way, attaching certain things to other things... Not only is using the result illegal, making, owning etc is also illegal.

I would suggest that any author using such a home made item avoids too many details describing it. Although finding the information isn't difficult, people have been prosecuted for publishing descriptions of the items and methods.

Radagast ๐Ÿšซ

@Jason Samson

The Baltimore Gun club did something similar:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Earth_to_the_Moon

This fictional columbiad is made of cast iron six feet (1.8 m) thick, is 900 feet (270 m) long, and has a bore with a diameter of nine feet (2.7 m). It weighs more than 68,000 short tons (61,700 metric tons or 60,700 long tons) and is therefore cast directly in the ground, rather than being mounted on rails. The cannon is then loaded with 400,000 pounds (180,000 kg) of "pyroxyle" (gun cotton) to give the projectile sufficient velocity to leave Earth's atmosphere and reach the Moon.

akarge ๐Ÿšซ

@Jason Samson

Just to make certain that you understand how large a 100" gun would be.

That is 8 feet, 4 inches. You could fire full size pickups through that barrel.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@akarge

You could fire full size pickups through that barrel.

You would need sabots for that as anything that doesn't fit the barrel isn't going to get accelerated all that efficiently.

In fact, I would expect a pickup without a sabot to get vaporized without leaving the barrel.

Jason Samson ๐Ÿšซ

@Jason Samson

My plot is kinda firming around a challenge that the NFA is unconstitutional.

40" would be a world record, but fiction abhors half measures.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Jason Samson

The NFA has stood since the 30's.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/16-894

That's the most recent challenge. I don't see it being overturned anytime soon.

Just from my perspective, the NFA was the only 'common sense' gun law ever to be made. The average person doesn't know how to handle full autos. Short barreled shotguns are definitely not picky for where the shot goes down range, and nobody needs a grenade to defend themselves.

It does need some modification though. Silencers should have never been included in class III.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

The NFA has stood since the 30's.

Irrelevant if he wants to do an alternate history where it gets overturned. He's writing a fictional story.

Just from my perspective, the NFA was the only 'common sense' gun law ever to be made. The average person doesn't know how to handle full autos. Short barreled shotguns are definitely not picky for where the shot goes down range, and nobody needs a grenade to defend themselves.

And this brings up a significant flaw in the NFA.

The definition of rifle and shotgun in the text of the act explicitly includes a shoulder stock.

This means a 12 gauge pistol originally manufactured without a shoulder stock and with a 6 inch barrel is not legally a short barrel shotgun and is completely legal.

Also it's legal to make and sell pistols chambered for rifle cartridges all the way up to .50 BMG. These are not legally short barreled rifles and are not subject to the minimum barrel length.

Replies:   zx10r
zx10r ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Thompson-Center Arms and Remington made some of the more famous single/bolt-action pistols. I recall shooting a TC .30-30 pistol one cold January day at age 14.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@zx10r

Thompson-Center Arms and Remington made some of the more famous single/bolt-action pistols. I recall shooting a TC .30-30 pistol one cold January day at age 14.

Someone did a single shot pistol in .50BMG (Browning Machine Gun). Personally, I wouldn't want to try firing it. I like my wrists too much. :)

Here's another wrist breaker, a 12 gauge double barrel pistol.

StarFleet Carl ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

Just from my perspective, the NFA was the only 'common sense' gun law ever to be made.

Don't forget the SCOTUS ruling regarding it, US v. Miller, and this VERY important line from that decision.

Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense.

Darn - that just blows ALL 'assault weapon' bans out the window, because they COULD contribute to the common defense.

Replies:   Remus2  Radagast
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@StarFleet Carl

The so called assault weapons bans were bullshit from the start.

If I wack someone over the head with a toilet plunger, I just assaulted them. So does that mean all plungers with black colored rubber should be banned?

Radagast ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

It was simply a means of dividing the voter base. Get the left riled up about banning guns and protecting abortion. Get the right riled up about banning abortion and protecting guns. No one notices the systematic destruction of the real economy over a 40 year period.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

So does that mean all plungers with black colored rubber should be banned?

Phew, my toilet plunger has blue rubber :-)

AJ

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Phew, my toilet plunger has blue rubber :-)

If it has a high volume, it's still no good. High capacity plunger heads are on the block.

fool42 ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

I seem to remember reading that the favorite weapon of the Spetsnaz is their shovel. I guess that makes it an "assault shovel."

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

I just assaulted them.

Hit them with pepper. That isn't a sault.

Radagast ๐Ÿšซ

@StarFleet Carl

Miller was already dead in a ditch and his lawyer refused to go to DC, probably not wanting to join Miller. So of course there was no 'Judicial notice'. The case being decided instead of dropped as moot with Miller's death was very odd.

The 'common use' and 'especially dangerous' language in the Heller decision was intended to cut out full auto and destructive devices from 2nd amendment protection. Instead of protecting the common issued weapons of the milita, it is now interpreted as protecting the commonly owned private weapons for self defense and hunting. Thanks to the NFA & Hughes, full auto, SBR, SBS & grenade launchers are not common weapons.
With the semi-auto AR15 one of the most common class of longarm firearms in the country, its unlikely that SCOTUS will uphold a ban on them. On the flip side,judicial nullification of the Hughes Amendment is not going to happen.

fool42 ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

Of course, since the Bruin decision, the NFA legislation fails the criteria for constitutionality under the rules spelled out by the Supreme Court. There are several groups getting ready to challenge the NFA in court.
A fun time for all.

Justin Case ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Jason Samson

100" is going to be rather large.

Are you shooting at the moon ??? LOL

You leave "caliber" and get into "inch" when you go to cannons.
The USS MISSOURI only has 18" guns, and they launch a shell that is equal to heaving a volkswagon bug at a target.

"Cannons", which is what you are describing, are a strange beast legally.

Some will be 100% legal, while others will be regulated.

Search the BATFE website and you will find your answers.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Justin Case

You leave "caliber" and get into "inch" when you go to cannons.

The USS MISSOURI only has 18" guns, and they launch a shell that is equal to heaving a volkswagon bug at a target.

The Missouri has 16" guns. But due to another quirk when dealing with naval guns, those 16 inch guns fire 50 caliber rounds(decimal point to the right, not left). In their case, caliber becomes a function of the length of the gun's barrel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16-inch/50-caliber_Mark_7_gun

The 18 inch naval guns belonged to the IJN Yamato and Musashi.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

The Missouri has 16" guns. But due to another quirk when dealing with naval guns, those 16 inch guns fire 50 caliber rounds(decimal point to the right, not left).

No, the 16 inch guns fire 16 inch rounds.

In their case, caliber becomes a function of the length of the gun's barrel.

The caliber of the gun is 16 inches. The barrel length of 50 caliber (really it ought to be plural 50 calibers, but that's not how the Navy does it) means that the barrel length is 50 times the caliber (bore diameter) of the gun.

So the caliber of the gun is 16" and the barrel length is 50*16" or 800"

Justin Case ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

Yes, SIXTEEN INCH is correct.

Thanks for correction.
I was typing in very low light and hit the wrong number key but didn't notice the error.

blackjack2145309 ๐Ÿšซ

@Jason Samson

Just to put in my own $.02 on this subject I'd say you should dig into the history of WWII and Iraq War I if you want to talk about artillery type cannons...

I seem to remember both Saddam and Hitler tried to build artillery buried in the ground or sides of mountains and used multiple explosive sub munitions to propel large shells.

Fortunately they were both found and bombed to hell but the reason i mention it is because i think that cannons like i've just mentioned would be perfect for the scenario described in the original post.

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