I was recently talking with a handful of people who all had ancestors in Ireland.
Every one of them professed belief that some day, somehow, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would be reunited as one nation.
Does anybody know of a story of that happening? Preferably on SOL, but deadtree is okay.
Peripherally, the end of Colt45's Mayhem 4: Irish Mist had Eire reunited after "The War." I don't personally know of any stories where that society is front-and-center, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
https://storiesonline.net/a/colt45 https://storiesonline.net/s/66546/mayhem-4-irish-mist
The Outsider
7/19/2021, 8:51:42 PM
@PotomacBob
Peripherally, the end of Colt45's Mayhem 4: Irish Mist had Eire reunited after "The War." I don't personally know of any stories where that society is front-and-center, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
https://storiesonline.net/a/colt45 https://storiesonline.net/s/66546/mayhem-4-iri
Thank you. You're the only one, so far, who actually responded with the name of a STORY.
Keep an eye on Starfleet Carl's story. I think his Superman-alike has made a couple of digs about how the horrible English are oppressing the people of Northern Ireland, so some sort of enforced Irish unification might be on his agenda.
AJ
Every one of them professed belief that some day, somehow, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would be reunited as one nation.
Never going to happen as religion is involved.
Every one of them professed belief that some day, somehow, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would be reunited as one nation.
Reunited?
Excerpt from Wikipedia (bold setting by me):
Ireland continued as a patchwork of rival kingdoms; however, beginning in the 7th century, a concept of national kingship gradually became articulated through the concept of a High King of Ireland. [...] All of the Irish kingdoms had their own kings but were nominally subject to the high king. The high king was drawn from the ranks of the provincial kings and ruled also the royal kingdom of Meath, with a ceremonial capital at the Hill of Tara. The concept did not become a political reality until the Viking Age and even then was not a consistent one.
During all their history the Irish were fighting one another, endemic warfare was deep-seated in Ireland.
Even the Scottish Highlanders evolved from Irish clans that fled Ireland. The protestant northern Irelanders are to some degree descendants of these Irish clans!
HM.
According to Ancestry.com, I am the g-g-g-g-g-g (more or less) grandson of Edward the Bruce, last High King of Ireland. He was from Scotland.
That and $5 will get me a Starbucks Double Shot on ice.
But being Scottish and Irish, a double shot should be of something other than coffee.
Ireland, One Nation, Under God, Indivisible
Which god are you referring to? Not which flavour of worship but which actual god?
Irish history includes a number of gods that were worshipped at various times, many overlapping by centuries.
Also. The idea of reuniting requires that at some point prior unity occurred.
To say that Ireland was not unified is to ignore history. It was as or more unified as any state in Europe at the time of the English invasions in the 12th century. It had had a political system that was acknowledged by all - even if they sometimes fought over succession.
It remained culturally unified until the Ulster Plantation.
Your discussion reminds me of an argument my husband and I had in the early years of our marriage over 50 years ago. My husband insisted we return to his home town for THE FAMILY REUNION. Seems his huge family got together once each year.
It was a strange ritual for me as I am an only child of only children, but then so is he. After enduring the second occasion of this ritual I decided they got together annually with the sole purpose of renewing old anamosities.
My background is similar to his recent ancestry: Irish, Scot and English. The few times the few members of my family got together was for either a funeral or a wedding - if the celebrants didn't have the good sense to elope or just go live together. After the first round not one of the family could or would agree on the day of the week.
Maybe we should just consider the Irish reunification issue a genetic disposition to disagree and let them embrace old anamosities rather than risk the reactions of others if they create new ones.
The complete opposite to PotomacBob's request, here is a story set in the Troubles.
https://storiesonline.net/s/61628/overwatch
Radagast
8/10/2021, 9:20:29 AM
@PotomacBob
The complete opposite to PotomacBob's request, here is a story set in the Troubles.
https://storiesonline.net/s/61628/overwatch
Thank you very much. I'll read it.
I learned real fast to keep my opinions of Ireland, Scotland, and Britian to myself when working in that region.
I liken it to a family reunion. Those in the family can get downright brutal with each other, but let an outsider comment and everyone in the family will jump on that person. Best to just let them deal with their internal issues themselves.
Ireland
Ire land.
Dictionary
ire
/ΛΔ«(Ι)r/
noun
anger.
"the plans provoked the ire of conservationists"
Similar:
anger
rage
fury
wrath
hot temper
outrage
temper
crossness
spleen
annoyance
exasperation
irritation
vexation
displeasure
chagrin
pique
indignation
resentment
choler
Definitions from Oxford Languages"
I learned real fast to keep my opinions of Ireland, Scotland, and Britian
Ummm, 'Britain' is the overall name used for the collection of fluffy happy people that make up the countries of Wales, England and Scotland. So really your comment should have missed out Scotland so that it read "my opinions of Ireland and Britain...". If you mean to include Scotland, then it should have been "Ireland (N&S), Scotland, Wales and England..."
;)
Ummm, 'Britain' is the overall name used for the collection of fluffy happy people that make up the countries of Wales, England and Scotland.
I thought that's 'Great Britain' as in 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' and 'Britain' is just England + Wales.
HM.
the 'United' Kingdom is Britain plus NI.
Misanglist Emmanuel Macron thinks NI is already part of the EU, not the UK. Well, he's half right :-(
AJ
If you wrote a fan fiction about Macron being a gay french banker who likes to top black actors, who is married to his school teacher & the teacher is in a relationship with the banker's arab bodyguard, it would be a documentary. We are definitely surfing the Kali Yuga.
Best to just let them deal with their internal issues themselves.
Unfortunately we don't. That's why we let America impose the flawed 'Good Friday Agreement' and let the EU impose a hard border in the Irish Sea.
We're our own worst enemies in that respect :-(
AJ
I've witnessed more than one pub brawl break out over that GFA discussion. I definitely won't be commenting on it.
The British Isles is made up of four nations
The Scots, who keep the Sabbath and everything else they can lay their hands on.
The Welsh, who pray on their knees and their neighbours
The Irish, who do not know what the devil they want, but are willing to fight anyone for it
And the English, who consider themselves to be a race of self-made men β thereby relieving the Almighty of a terrible responsibility
Do listen to
a song of patriotic prejudice - flanders and swann
You forgot the Normans
The Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Bailiwick of Jersey are the remnants of the Duchy of Normandy.
In the Channel Islands the monarch of the United Kingdom is to this day referred to by the title "Duke of Normandy", whether King or Queen.
The British historian Ben Pimlott noted that while Queen Elizabeth II was on a visit to mainland Normandy in May 1967, French locals began to doff their hats and shout "Vive la Duchesse!", to which the Queen supposedly replied "Well, I am The Duke of Normandy!".
HM.
Can there be a Duchess of Normandy?
The whole thing is unclear, because of
the Treaty of Paris of 1259, when the English sovereign ceded his claim except for the Channel Islands; i.e., the Bailiwicks of Guernsey and Jersey, and their dependencies (including Sark).
So after this treaty a tiny part of the duchy remained with the crown, while the whole mainland part became French and the French kings bestowed the title to French subjects while the British monarch still claimed the title "Duke of Normandy". Queen Victoria was Duke of Normandy as is Queen Elizabeth. Therefor no "Duchess of Normandy".
But
Thereafter, the ducal title was held by several French princes.
In 1332, King Philip VI gave the Duchy in appanage to his son John, who became king John II of France in 1350. He in turn gave the Duchy in appanage to his son Charles, who became king Charles V of France in 1364. In 1465, Louis XI, under constraint, gave the Duchy to his brother Charles de Valois, Duke of Berry. Charles was unable to hold the Duchy and in 1466 it was again subsumed into the crown lands and remained a permanent part of them. The title was conferred on a few junior members of the French royal family before the abolition of the French monarchy in 1792.
If one of these Duc de Normandy was married, his wife was 'la Duchesse' which translates to Duchess. Since 1792 the French title was not used anymore, so today no "Duchess of Normandy".
I can speculate about a Duchess where a future Queen has a same sex marriage and her spouse become Duchess while she is Duke of Normandy.
HM.
(typo edited Fench - French)
Can there be a Duchess of Normandy?
Yes.
The States (Government) of Jersey operates a launch named the Duchess of Normandy
(And a tug named the Duke of Normandy
And the normans were, as the name implies, Vikings from Denmark and Norway.
They conquered Southern Italy, North Africa and all kinds of places that surprise people too.
Yep. They also conquered the Levant and parts of Byzantium. They are still around as the British aristocracy. 30% of the land in England is still owned by them and their collateral families.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author
The indoctrination taught in school to ensure I was a good worker drone who didn't question the narrative was boring. Real history is fascinating.
I'd love to find some good sources on the Varangians. Apparently they were Norse who headed down to the Black Sea and across to Constantinople. As the Anglo-Saxon aristos who were expelled by William the Bastard also headed to Constantinople to look for work I'm guessing there may have been a few clashes between the two groups.
In dead tree press I can recommend Harry Turtledove's Videssos Cycle. Effectively its Byzantium with magic.
I can recommend The Other Conquest by John Julius Norwich about the Norman conquest of the Two Sicilies. Norwich also published Normans in the South 1016-1130 and Kingdom in the Sun 1130-1194, both about Norman Sicily. Everything I have read by Norwich is very good. He has a series of books on the Byzantine Empire, and at least one on Venice.
The Vikings also conquered England under Cnut the Great in 1016. Cnut, as king of England, Denmark, and Norway ruled a great northern empire.
The wikipedia entry for 'Varangian Guard' says
The Varangian Guard was known for being primarily composed of recruits from northern Europe, including mainly Norsemen from Scandinavia but also Anglo-Saxons from England
It also says
By the time of the Emperor Alexios Komnenos in the late 11th century, the Varangian Guard was largely recruited from Anglo-Saxons and "others who had suffered at the hands of the Vikings and their cousins the Normans".
There is also a bibliography
Ian
That was in later times, originally the Varangian Guards were mostly Varangians.
The Swedes (Swedish: svear; Old Norse: svΓar) were a North Germanic tribe who inhabited Svealand ("land of the Swedes") in central Sweden and one of the progenitor groups of modern Swedes, along with Geats and Gutes. They had their tribal centre in Gamla Uppsala. During the Viking Age they constituted the basis of the Varangian subset.
Engaging in trade, piracy, and mercenary activities, Varangians roamed the river systems and portages of Gardariki, as the areas north of the Black Sea were known in the Norse sagas. They controlled the Volga trade route (between the Varangians and the Muslims), connecting the Baltic to the Caspian Sea, and the Dnieper and Dniester trade route (between Varangians and the Greeks) leading to the Black Sea and Constantinople. Those were the critically important trade links at that time, connecting Medieval Europe with Abbasid Caliphates and the Byzantine Empire; Most of the silver coinage in the West came from the East via those routes.
Attracted by the riches of Constantinople, the Varangian Rus' initiated a number of Rus'-Byzantine Wars, some of which resulted in advantageous trade treaties. At least from the early 10th century many Varangians served as mercenaries in the Byzantine Army, constituting the elite Varangian Guard (the personal bodyguards of Byzantine emperors).
HM.
