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Breaking the Third Wall

awnlee jawking 🚫

A character in a story knows it's a story and does everything possible to avert the 'happy ever after' event that would result in the story concluding, meaning the end of their existence (sequels notwithstanding). The protagonist can't be allowed to marry the love interest. The protagonist can't permanently decommission the antagonist. The planet or the hostages can't be completely saved.

The character could also break the fourth wall by addressing the reader to explain their actions.

AJ

akarge 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Ok, now THAT is an interesting concept. I have no clue how to go about it, but it does make you think.

I suggest maybe something in the humor category. As the MC tries and tries to keep things moving along.

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

I never read it (I never even heard of it), but the Google AI found the following:

The Man in the Margin: A Tale of Self-Awareness

In the quaint town of Willow Creek, where the days moved with predictable regularity, lived a man named Arthur Finch. Unlike his neighbors who went about their lives with blissful ignorance, Arthur had an unusual secret: he knew he was a character in a story.

It started subtly. A recurring dream where he saw himself from a distant perspective, a voice whispering the plot points of his life, a strange sensation of déjà vu that was more like déjà vécu, as if he'd already lived this moment before. As the awareness grew, Arthur began to notice the subtle patterns, the convenient coincidences that always seemed to propel him towards a dramatic climax.

Arthur tried to ignore it, to live as if his life was just his own. But the more he tried to push it away, the more the seams of his reality started to show. He would catch glimpses of the narrator's voice in the wind, see the foreshadowing in the setting sun, and feel the narrative tension building like a tightening noose around his neck.

This knowledge brought a peculiar isolation. He couldn't confide in anyone, not even his wife, Mary. Who would believe a man who claimed to be a fictional character? The fear of being labeled insane only pushed him further into the margins of his own life, watching his story unfold from the sidelines.

One day, a new family moved into the house across the street. The daughter, a bright young girl named Lily, had a curious habit of staring at Arthur with an intensity that made him feel like he was being observed, not just seen. He found himself drawn to her, perhaps because she seemed to possess an almost uncanny understanding of him, a silent recognition of his "otherness."

When Lily finally asked him about his strange demeanor, Arthur was surprised. He told her about his secret, not expecting her to believe, yet she listened with a contemplative gaze. "I think it's cool," she said, "like you're a superhero who can see the whole story."

Lily's acceptance gave Arthur a newfound sense of purpose. He decided to use his knowledge to subtly influence his story, to make choices that were not just dictated by the plot, but also by his own will. He started small, by choosing to take a different route to work, by saying "no" when he usually would say "yes."

As Arthur began to navigate the narrative with a bit more agency, he discovered that the story was not a rigid script, but a tapestry woven with possibilities. He could still be a character, but he could also choose to weave his own threads into the fabric of his life.

The Man in the Margin, once a passive observer of his own story, now started to actively participate, reminding everyone that even in a world of predetermined narratives, there's always a space for free will, even for a character who knows he is just that - a character.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Thank you.

I guessed authors would probably already have used the idea and it's interesting to see a different take on it.

AJ

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Switch Blayde

And in it's own way, it's remarkably similar to the many, many Do-0ver tales on SOL and in the real-world entertainment media, a recurring theme, if you will, where the characters' know the future, yet each find their own agency to affect change directly, subtly changing everyone's future for the better.

akarge 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Of course, possibly this awareness is really a sign of some deep psychosis. 🤪

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Worth noting that a number of comic characters not only break the fourth wall regularly, but canonically actually know that they are comic book characters. There's even a What If...?! issue where Deadpool steps outside the comic pages into the writing room at Marvel, intending to kill everyone (although that isn't show).

As an aside, note that fourth wall breaking refers to anything that draws the audience's attention to the fact that the performance isn't real. People tend to overemphasize characters talking to the audience; this is a specific type of fourth wall break called "direct address," but it is by no mean the only method.

One form of fourth wall break that was more common in theatre, especially kabuki, was to have characters killed by stagehands or special effects as a way of suggesting assassination or unknown forces. Kabuki productions using this technique is where we get the idea that ninjas wore black (real ones didn't): black was worn by stage hands and audiences knew to ignore the presence on stage of anyone wearing the colour. I don't what the first production was where a "stagehand" suddenly became part of the story, revealing themselves as an assassin, but that must have been a shock to the audience.

Dominions Son 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

I don't what the first production was...

There appears to be a word missing here. Maybe "know"?

Replies:   Dicrostonyx
Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Dominions Son

I don't what the first production was...

There appears to be a word missing here. Maybe "know"?

There is a word missing. In fact, you failed to quote half the sentence. Perhaps change "where" to "in which", or we could rephrase that sentence as:

"I don't know the name or date of the first production to use the technique whereby a stagehand was revealed to be a part of the story as an assassin, but I expect that was quite a shock to the audience."

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

As an aside, note that fourth wall breaking refers to anything that draws the audience's attention to the fact that the performance isn't real.

That can't be right because it would mean breaking the third wall automatically breaks the fourth wall.

AJ

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@awnlee jawking

"Breaking the third wall" is a real term in critical theory, but does not mean what you described in your first post. It refers to a character addressing the medium in which they are situated, such as a character in a horror film saying "we can't split up, that's how they get you."

Some critics say that the third wall is always down, others argue that the term only applies when a character appears to be aware of the tropes of the genre they are in, without acknowledge that they are, in fact, in a film or story.

Any situation in which a character acknowledges an audience or existence outside of their world, or in which their world is affected by ours in a direct way, is breaking the fourth wall. I didn't bother to clarify this point above since I assumed that your use of the term "third wall" was a typo.

The terms of the walls come from theatre. The first wall is the back wall which typically displays backdrops or curtains which create an illusion of the world in which the characters operate. The second and third walls are stage left & right. The fourth wall is the "invisible wall" the space separating the space from the audience.

From the point of view of the character, their world continues in all four directions. When looking towards the audience, they are seeing their own world in the distance. When exiting left or right, their story continues even though we, the audience, do not see it. The fourth wall is our window into their world. The third wall is part of their world and breaking it does not mean acknowledging ours.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫
Updated:

@Dicrostonyx

I'm using the definitions recommended by Google.

Breaking the third wall means when characters in a production show awareness of the fact that they are characters in a production (addressing the medium).

Breaking the fourth wall means when characters acknowledge and/or speak to the audience.

AJ

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'm using the definitions recommended by Google.

Personally, I'm skeptical of the answers generated by Google's AI.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dominions Son

Personally, I'm skeptical of the answers generated by Google's AI.

They can be utter rubbish, can't they!

In this case, I think it hasn't done badly because further sites seem to confirm the answers.

AJ

Vincent Berg 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Breaking the third wall means when characters in a production show awareness of the fact that they are characters in a production (addressing the medium).

Breaking the fourth wall means when characters acknowledge and/or speak to the audience.

Ahh, that makes sense, though breaking the third wall isn't related to the layout of the stage in any meaningful way, it's just one step short of breaking the forth wall.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Vincent Berg

breaking the third wall isn't related to the layout of the stage in any meaningful way, it's just one step short of breaking the forth wall.

From Google, that seems to be the rationale of the term, with 'breaking the third wall' coming into usage after 'breaking the fourth wall'.

Some sources also mention 'breaking the fifth wall', but the definition seems artificial in the extreme. To me, it would make more sense if it meant the character(s) were showing awareness of the author.

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

'breaking the fifth wall'

Remember Sweeney Todd? He pulled the lever which broke the "fifth wall." The guy slid out of the barber chair through it. LOL

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Remember Sweeney Todd? He pulled the lever which broke the "fifth wall."

Good one!

AJ

Vincent Berg 🚫

@awnlee jawking

That can't be right because it would mean breaking the third wall automatically breaks the fourth wall.

On a stage, the "forth wall" is the one facing the audience, hence the term. So, in that case, WTF is the "third wall", left stage (aka: "Exit stage left")?

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