As far as I can tell, those trucks that come around to treat the highways and roads before a predicted snowstorm - no longer use salt. They use a brine, which appears to mean there's less salt on the highway (just a dusting), it spreads more easily, and is just as effective at preventing accumulation (meaning not very).
Anybody know why they do this - and is this just a local phenomenon? I suspect it might have something to do with money.
In that sense brine can be made with Magnesium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, or Sodium Chloride, mixed with water. The intent is to melt road ice. It can also be stored in tanks, unlike the salt sheds/barns typically found up north. I doubt seriously it will ever fully replace standard road salt though.
and is this just a local phenomenon?
It's likely either regional or local.
Where I'm at they still use real dry salt and a very course salt at that (what could be called rock salt).
At a guess, where they are using the brine is probably areas where they don't have icing problems all winter every year, and therefore don't stockpile salt, doing what they can to stretch limited supplies of salt as far as possible.
Another thing I have seen along the same lines is some areas using a mix of salt and sand. The sand doesn't help get rid of ice/snow, but the idea is that it adds grit, improving traction in the face of ice/compacted snow, and it stretches a limited supply of salt further than it would otherwise go.
In central indiana, state and county like to use the liquid brine to treat the roads before a storm. Claims it slows the snow/ice process, allowing them to get started on plow and dry salting. Downfall is if it rains after brine then freeze.
As stated, the reason usually boils down to cost/availability. A couple of years ago, France used wine unfit for consumption in the treatment of roads and in Scotland, before environmentalists went mad and started worshipping at the altar of Greta, some distillery's used whisky to treat the roads around them.
some distillery's used whisky to treat the roads around them.
That sounds like an urban legend ("bourbon legend" would imply Kentucky).
some distillery's used whisky to treat the roads around them.
First time I read that, I interpreted used as an adjective rather than a verb. Used whisky? Ew! :)
That's because (s)he wrote distillery's rather than distilleries, and I simply assumed that it was a misspelling because otherwise the last part of the sentence would not have made sense.
I simply assumed that it was a misspelling because otherwise the last part of the sentence would not have made sense
Drink a bunch of whisky, then go pee(used whisky) on the road.
When I said "the last part of the sentence" I meant the last two words, which were "around them", so "distillery's" was obviously supposed to be a plural.
I think the brine is to help keep ice from adhering tightly to the road surface so that plowing leaves a cleaner road. Here they still spread salt while plowing.
Here they still spread salt while plowing.
In my area they will spread salt while plowing, but they will also spread salt without plowing ahead of anticipated winter storms.
First consideration:
Sodium chloride lowers the freezing point of water to ~18 degrees F.
Magnesium chloride, as low as 13 degrees, but costs more.
Second consideration:
Dry salt crystals don't do much, they have to dissolve in water first. If it's well below freezing, there's no liquid water around for them to dissolve in. Dry salt may just sit there until traffic shoves it off the road.
So it comes down to "how cold is it" and "how much can we afford?"
https://www.mcall.com/opinion/mc-xpm-2011-02-22-mc-explain-it-brine-20110222-story.html
Using brine instead of salt is environmental better.
* you need more salt to melt road ice when you use dry salt than brine.
*same for preventive salting: brine is better than dry salt.
Cause is on ice or a dry road surface dry salt, especially coarse rock salt, doesn't stay there, it gets blown away by heavy traffic and by stronger wind.
While still using dry salt the newer systems wet the salt with brine, the wet salt gets far less blown away. After changing to wet salt Germany reduced within 3 years the usage of road salt from 600,000 tons per year to 250,000 tons per year (Source: Federal Ministry of Transport, 1984)
HM.
I did some checking, my state (Wisconsin) is using some brine for anti/de icing, though I haven't seen this in my county. Apparently Milwaukee is using brine.
An interesting point I found is that as an extra cost saving method a few counties are using waste brine from cheese producing dairies.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/01/21/264562529/cheese-to-the-rescue-surprising-spray-melts-road-ice
Interesting article. If that takes off across your state, I can see the Cheese manufacturers changing their production schedules to primarily winter production.
I can see the Cheese manufacturers changing their production schedules to primarily winter production.
I doubt that. The brine is a byproduct of the cheese making process. It's a waste product that the dairy would probably have to pay to have properly disposed of if the county wasn't taking it off their hands and using it.
What I can see is the county funding brine storage tanks near the dairy that the dairy can pump their waste brine directly into and the county brine spreaders can access to fill up.
It's a win/win. The dairy can sell what would otherwise be a waste product and the county gets inexpensive brine.
The brine is a byproduct of the cheese making process. It's a waste product that the dairy would probably have to pay to have properly disposed of if the county wasn't taking it off their hands and using it.
They do have to pay for removal of waste brine normally, but if they can get .gov to take it away for free or buy it, that pads their bottom line. Thus the change in scheduling.
They do have to pay for removal of waste brine normally, but if they can get .gov to take it away for free or buy it, that pads their bottom line. Thus the change in scheduling.
If the county builds a storage facility that can hold at least a winter's worth of brine, that eliminates any need for a change in scheduling on the part of the dairy, which probably wouldn't be practical anyway as the main input to the cheese making process is perishable and they can't easily reschedule milk production to fit what you suggest.
Most Wisconsin cheese producers do not just buy milk on the open market. They run their own dairies. To the extent that they buy extra milk it's mostly from other smaller local dairies.
Most Wisconsin cheese producers do not just buy milk on the open market. They run their own dairies. To the extent that they buy extra milk it's mostly from other smaller local dairies.
Wisconsin is not the only cheese state in America. Every large producer follows that same model.
Wisconsin is not the only cheese state in America. Every large producer follows that same model.
I don't have first hand knowledge of cheese producers elsewhere so I didn't speak about those.
And if you knew that why suggest that they can reschedule production to winter? The production of the whole milk that feeds the cheese making can't be rescheduled like that and it won't keep for six months.
And if you knew that why suggest that they can reschedule production to winter?
The brine is not needed year round, the rescheduling would be timing it so they can get the .gov to handle the waste brine instead of paying to get rid of it.
The brine is not needed year round, the rescheduling would be timing it so they can get the .gov to handle the waste brine instead of paying to get rid of it.
Again, the rescheduling of cheese production to winter as you suggest is straight up not possible under the model of a dairy producing the milk they use to make the cheese. They have to produce the cheese as the milk that goes into is produced.
.gov run brine storage achieves the same end.
The use of brine to treat roads is a faster and cheaper way to pretreat roads before a storm where the treatment will last/stay in place for a longer length of time. The use of rock salt doesn't stay on the road as traffic drives over it like brine does. Pretty much the only thing that will remove brine from the road quickly is rain and rain will remove the rock salt as well. The bad thing about brine is it will turn your vehicle into a rust bucket in no time so if you have a car wash that offers an under carriage wash the dollar extra charge is easier on the pocket then a new car in 3-5 years.
In my area Michigan/Ohio border they add beet juice to the brine which when mixed with brine allows the melting agent to be effective at lower temperatures. Based on the level of concentration beet juice mixed with brine can help control ice when it is as cold as around 0 degrees.
Beet juice also acts as a binding agent allowing brine to adhere to pavement longer.
In my area Michigan/Ohio border they add beet juice to the brine
I read an article about the brine they use here in Ottawa and it said that they add Whey (liquid leftover from cheese making) to help bind the stuff to the surface.
