Forum: Author Hangout

Ngrams agree with you.

AJ

Thanks. It's tough arguing with Ngram results. I was confused because while "Bronx" refers to the specific borough, 'The Bronx" refers to the collection of miscellaneous villages with no centralized government that existed before New York City annexed the neighboring communities into boroughs.

Ngrams isn't unequivocal. My understanding is that 'Are' used to hold sway, perhaps due to the origins of the name. Although 'Is' is more popular today, 'Are' still gets a significant usage.

AJ

Ngrams isn't unequivocal. My understanding is that 'Are' used to hold sway, perhaps due to the origins of the name. Although 'Is' is more popular today, 'Are' still gets a significant usage.

Speaking of nGrams, when trying to use them today, they now issue a warning to put symbols (like hyphenated words) inside of parenthesis, so they aren't treated as wild cards, but no matter how I tried it, I only got single responses when comparing two phrases.

Has anyone successfully managed to search for a hyphenated word to determine whether you hyphenate a word or not (in my case "reappeared", since most spell-checkers don't consider it a word, and I'd like to have something definitive to shut my editors up about it). If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'd rather have a case to argue rather than "some dictionaries" us this form.

in my case "reappeared", since most spell-checkers don't consider it a word

In that case, most spell-checkers are wrong

AJ

In that case, most spell-checkers are wrong

Yeah, I keep leaving it in, despite the fact that a couple editors insist on marking it wrong. I guess I need to add it to my 'latest book' additional dictionary, though that means I'll have to remember to add it for each new book I write from now on.

I've just checked reentered v re-entered while doing some editing. In British English, re-entered holds sway by something like three to one. So much for trying to deduce a logical rule!

AJ

I've just checked reentered v re-entered while doing some editing. In British English, re-entered holds sway by something like three to one. So much for trying to deduce a logical rule!

I wonder whether it's largely convenience: no hyphens is the optimum unless the readers need one to avoid garden-path words that are hard to parse. To that end, a hyphen is probably optimal when the last letter of the prefix matches the first letter of the root eg re-ejaculate, mono-orgasmic, multi-incestuous.

AJ

I wonder whether it's largely convenience:

It's evolution. Common hyphenated words such as "make-up" and "pick-up" over the years evolved to "makeup" and "pickup" (with the hyphenated version still acceptable). The most recent one I know of is "ebook" which used to be "e-book" just like "e-reader" still is.

The most recent one I know of is "ebook" which used to be "e-book" just like "e-reader" still is.

Or, in the modern day with eBooks so prevalent, so is e-jaculate, as so many 'waste' their seed on their device screens, just to post them on the internet. (Absolutely disgusting, if you ask me, but since no one is ...)

By the way, I've been tending towards the "eBook" usage, much like "ePub", as it's more distinctive and harder to misinterpret. "e-Book" looks dated, whereas "eBook" looks ... modern?

I blame Apple and all their iBling. If you drop the hyphen, why eBook rather than Ebook?

For the same reason that Apple first used it. Not only does the term "Ebook" disappear when used at the start of the sentence, but by capitalizing the second letter, it stands out more than the surrounding words.

It was really an ingenious technique, though one that Apple has done to death. Still, for something less omni-present, and still largely underutilized, it seems to fit eBooks better (while I believe that "ePub" is actually the product name).

it seems to fit eBooks better

But when you start a sentence with iPad or iPhone, you don't capitalize the "i" (according to CMoS). But if you use "eBook," it would be "EBook" when starting a sentence. "eBook" isn't a product name.

so is e-jaculate, as so many 'waste' their seed on their device screens

Allegedly it makes a good screen cleaner ;)

AJ

I've just checked reentered v re-entered while doing some editing. In British English, re-entered holds sway by something like three to one. So much for trying to deduce a logical rule!

Any time I'm checking a words usage, I'll run a "American vs British English check" on Google, as it'll definitely sway my decision, especially since I tend to adopt many British spellings from my youth.

Thanks for that link. For the longest time, I've been unable to search for single word phrases vs. two-word combinations (like "Stationhouse" vs "Station House". Apparently, all this time, I've simply been going to ngrams.com, rather than books.google.com/graph?. I'd though they were the same thing, but obviously not!

"let's go visit the Bronks."

Yes, sort of. It was the Bronks farm and the river near it (or ran through it) was known as the Bronks River. But at some point, like the "socks" in the Boston Red Socks changing to Sox, Bronks was changed to Bronx.

Except as a legal matter in all official documents the name of the borough is "the Bronx"

I was talking about the spelling change of the word — Bronks to Bronx — like "Socks" to "Sox" (Boston Red Sox and Chicago White Sox).

A better example would be Windows.

Hence the use of either "M$" or "MicroShit". ;D

I've seen MicroShaft (they give their users the...), but MicroShit is a new one to me.

For some, being handed a powerful throbbing shaft is a nice thing, being shit on by a humongous, uncaring corporation, however ...

Except as a legal matter in all official documents the name of the borough is "the Bronx"

Which again raises the complication of whether you say "The Bronx IS" or "The Bronx ARE". For now, I'm sticking to "is", but it still makes my inner grammar editor cringe whenever I do it.

However, one important bit, you write "The Bronx", in the official legal documents its written as "the Bronx" the definitive article is officially part of the name, but they only capitalize it when it falls at the beginning of a sentence.

That's not quite true. Instead, when referring to the borough, you ALWAYS write "The Bronx", but when referring to someone or something affiliated with The Bronx, you write "Brooklyn XXX" (with no definitive article).

It's completely true that that is the way the official NYC Charter reads. Unless it starts a sentence, "the" in "the Bronx" is not capitalized.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to dropping the definitive "the" entirely, not refusing to capitalize it. My fault on that one. I hadn't read your message correctly. :(