Forum: Author Hangout

Reading a 1758 printing (in Williamsburg, Virginia) of a book by Eliza Smith (previously printed in England) called The Compleat Housewife, which includes a chapter on "Directions for Painting Rooms or Pales."
What are pales?
I don't believe, in context, that it means "pails." There is a recipe "to prepare the putty or paste to stop all joints in the pales or wood, that no water may soak in."
Most of the instructions call for using linseed oil and "red-lead" or "white lead" (along with turpentine) to make paint.
(The instructions use a lot of what appears to be the letter "f," which I think should be today's "s".
Anybody know - what is a pale?

Anybody know - what is a pale?

Not sure how it fits in the context of the book, but a pale is another word for a fence post.

I know you've heard the idiom "beyond the pale."
Think of it in terms of beyond the fence or safety. For clarification, research the origins of the idiom.

Seeing as it mentions linseed oil and putty, could it be a misprint for pane as in window pane where the glass was held in wooden frames with said putty. the frames would have to be painted with the rest of the room.

I've heard of "beyond the pale" but never knew a pale was a wooden privacy fence. Makes sense though.

"beyond the pale"

"Beyond the pale

What's the meaning of the phrase 'Beyond the pale'?
To be 'beyond the pale' is to be unacceptable; outside agreed standards of decency.

What's the origin of the phrase 'Beyond the pale'?
Firstly, let's get the spelling clear here. It's 'beyond the pale', and certainly not 'beyond the pail' - the phrase has nothing to do with buckets. The everyday use of the word 'pale' is as an adjective meaning whitish and light in colour (used to that effect by Procol Harum and in countless paint adverts). This 'pale' is the noun meaning 'a stake or pointed piece of wood', a meaning now virtually obsolete except as used in this phrase, but still in use in the associated words 'paling' (as in paling fence) and 'impale' (as in Dracula movies).

Beyond the pale The paling fence is significant as the term 'pale' came to mean the area enclosed by such a fence and later just figuratively 'the area that is enclosed and safe'. So to be 'beyond the pale' was to be outside the area accepted as 'home'.

Catherine the Great created the Pale of Settlement in Russia in 1791. This was the name given to the western border region of the country, in which Jews were allowed to live. The motivation behind this was to restrict trade between Jews and native Russians. Some Jews were allowed to live, as a concession, 'beyond the pale'.

Pales were enforced in various other European countries for similar political reasons, notably in Ireland (the Pale of Dublin) and France (the Pale of Calais, which was formed as early as 1360).

The phrase itself originated later than that. The first printed reference comes from 1657 in John Harington's lyric poem The History of Polindor and Flostella. In that work, the character Ortheris withdraws with his beloved to a country lodge for 'quiet, calm and ease', but they later venture further:

"Both Dove-like roved forth beyond the pale to planted Myrtle-walk".

Such recklessness rarely meets with a good end in 17th century verse and before long the lovers are attacked by armed men with 'many a dire killing thrust'. The message is clear - 'if there is a pale, decent people stay inside it', which conveys exactly the figurative meaning of the phrase as it is used today."

@Crumbly Writer

Sorry, but there's no such phrase (that I'm aware of). I suspect you're thinking of 'Beyond the VALE', short for 'beyond the vale (valley) of tears' (aka. 'passed onto the afterlife), which is a fairly common phase, though it was much more popular in the late 19th and early twentieth centuries, especially in religious writings. (I know because I kept searching for the phrase, mistakenly using 'beyond the pale' before stumbling across the correct term.)

I find if hard to believe you've never heard or read it. Regardless, I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.

https://grammarist.com/usage/beyond-the-pale/

That's one of many references to it for your edification.

Edited to reflect who and what I was responding to since CW saw fit to delete his post.

Sorry, but there's no such phrase (that I'm aware of). I suspect you're thinking of 'Beyond the VALE', short for 'beyond the vale (valley) of tears' (aka. 'passed onto the afterlife)

Are you sure you are not confusing vale and veil?

"Beyond the vale of tears" sadness / sorrow

"They hadn't asked to come into this vale of tears"

"Beyond the veil" separates life and death

In a mysterious or hidden place or state, especially the unknown state of life after death.

"Billy realised that his father had passed irrevocably beyond the veil"

Source: Oxford English Dictionary