Forum: Author Hangout

bookdeposit.com?

Vincent Berg 🚫

Has anyone heard, and know anything of the Bookdeposit.com out of the UK? I just discovered one of my books listed with them, but I never submitted anything to them. It's for my paperback version, which they're charging $10.45 for (not my price), but I'm listed as the author and they specify the correct ISBNs. They don't provide a book description or cover image, which definitely makes them sound illegitimate.

I had an issue like this years back, with another site. When I alerted smashwords about the 'authorized listed', they admitted that 'yeah, we authorized that'. It was a reseller of purchased books (i.e. they'd get an order, purchase my book and then ship it to the customer, so technically I'd be paid through SW or Lulu in either case). So I want to ensure this isn't a legit site before I send them a take-down request.

Does anyone here know who lulu might have similar setups with?

Replies: Ernest Bywater Dominions Son

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Lulu has two main systems, the first only sells via Lulu and orders have to be placed with them. The second is with their Market Partnerships where the books are sold via Amazon, Apple, Kobo, B&N and their affiliates as well.

At one point I tried testing what was what with the Market Partnerships. I listed a book for the partnership but limited to only one partner, then a few months later added another partner to the list for the book. I found that as soon as I listed Kobo the book turned up on several European sites I wasn't aware were affiliated with the network, but are via Kobo. However, it really took of with people all over the world when I listed Amazon, because sites all over Asia, Europe, and South America were suddenly listing the book.

Thus, I'd guess they have an affiliation with Kobo or Amazon.

Dominions Son 🚫

@Vincent Berg

I don't know anything about the site, but just as a matter of copyright law, as long as they purchased legally printed copies rather than printing additional unauthorized copies, they are on sold legal ground reselling them.

As a legal matter they don't even really need explicit authorization from Smashwords or Lulu. All they need to be legal is that they purchase legally produced copies.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫
Updated:

@Dominions Son

As a legal matter they don't even really need explicit authorization from Smashwords or Lulu. All they need to be legal is that they purchase legally produced copies.

And there's the key, I'm trying to determine whether they're 'legitimate resellers' or not. The fact they don't supply essential details (they list the number of pages and the weight of the book, but not what it's about), though on the other hand, they do list the correct author and ISBNs.

Note: Just searched for "bookdepository.com reviews" and found reddit.com: Is bookdepository.com trustworthy?. Turns out the site is owned by Amazon, and they only deal with paper books (hard and soft covers). The site is legitimate, but can take time to ship the books (avg. delivery of 10 - 14 days to Australia, for example).

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Vincent Berg

And there's the key, I'm trying to determine whether they're 'legitimate resellers' or not.

And that's the problem, you are asking the wrong question. As long as a book is legally printed and released, whether sold or given out as a freebe, anyone who comes into possession of it can legally resell it.

Copyright only gives you the right to control who can make new copies of the book, it doesn't give you any control over what happens to the individual physical books after that.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Dominions Son

Copyright only gives you the right to control who can make new copies of the book, it doesn't give you any control over what happens to the individual physical books after that.

Unfortunately, the 'right to resell' hasn't been clearly defined or established for eBooks, so it's largely left to the individual cop/prosecutor/judge to decide for themselves what's legit and what isn't. Amazon allows you to choose whether users can 'share' copies of their ebooks, and that may affect how the courts view the matter.

But I'm not worried about anyone who legally purchases my book. In fast, if readers want to pass on copies to their friends, I don't object, as word-of-mouth recommendations are a powerful promotion. I just wanted to ensure that it was a legitimate site (i.e. not a copyright rip-off).

Replies: Dominions Son Ernest Bywater

Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

legitimate site (i.e. not a copyright rip-off).

A site selling physical hard copies can't be a copyright rip-off. The only copyright violation is by the person who makes the copies. A retailer selling pirated copies that they didn't produce themselves would not themselves be in violation of copyright law.

Replies: Vincent Berg Ernest Bywater

Vincent Berg 🚫
Updated:

@Dominions Son

A retailer selling pirated copies that they didn't produce themselves would not themselves be in violation of copyright law.

But a site which doesn't remove them when a 'copyright violation' complaint is filed, IS!

However, for legitimate sites, you really don't want to insist they 'take down' reference which might help sell your books.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Vincent Berg

But a site which doesn't remove them when a 'copyright violation' complaint is filed, IS!

I rather doubt that. More likely you would first have to have a judgement against whoever made the illegal copies.

What you can do once you have filed a complaint against the printer of the illegal copies is secure a court order that orders the books store to destroy or turn over to you any illegal copies. Refusal would put them in violation of the court order, not copyright law.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Dominions Son

A retailer selling pirated copies that they didn't produce themselves would not themselves be in violation of copyright law.

Actually, in most cases the selling of pirate copies is also against the law, because they're seen as stolen goods since they weren't legal copies..

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Vincent Berg

I just wanted to ensure that it was a legitimate site

This is a very murky area CW. Amazon are advertising some of my books for sale on their sites in various countries, books they never obtained a copy of and were never given permission by me to sell or advertise. Over the years I've sent them many emails and requests to remove them, but they don't, so i gave up.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

This is a very murky area CW. Amazon are advertising some of my books for sale on their sites in various countries, books they never obtained a copy of and were never given permission by me to sell or advertise. Over the years I've sent them many emails and requests to remove them, but they don't, so i gave up.

The problem (I'm assuming) is that Amazon is playing off the copyright violation against the 'free resale of purchased goods'. There is NO correlation allowing anyone to resell a bootleg product they 'legitimately' purchased, but it sounds like Amazon is hiding behind this legal fiction.

However, to move forward, you'd have to file suit, claiming financial loss giving you a legal right to sue (you can copy copyrighted works, you just can't sell them, so an author needs to prove loss of income to sue in court).

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Vincent Berg

However, to move forward, you'd have to file suit, claiming financial loss giving you a legal right to sue (you can copy copyrighted works, you just can't sell them, so an author needs to prove loss of income to sue in court).

Not completely true, at least not in the US. If you register the copyright with the US copyright office, that gives you access to statutory damages with no need to prove actual damages. On top of that, statutory damages are generally much higher than what actual damages would be.

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Forum: Author Hangout

bookdeposit.com?

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