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Anyone here willing to edit a story with gay sex in it?

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

I've got a gay author friend who's looking for a new editor, but he's been burned on SOL before (bad reactions, hateful feedback, and people refusing to even glance at stories).

Is there any editors here willing to edit a gay story? If so, I've got one myself. I've got a single editor who said he'd be willing to look at it.

One wouldn't thinks there's such a thing as gay punctuation and/or gay typos, but apparently it's an issue for most. Unfortunately, the gay story sites don't have to facilities find volunteer editors.

P.S. My story only has a couple (2 or 3) sex scenes, while my friends would involve more (about every chapter and a half? (I'm guessing, not having examined the new story yet)).

Replies:   imsly1  Ross at Play
Ernest Bywater

they could try asking an author who's posted a couple of gay stories if they'd edit for them. It's because I posted a couple of DiD stories a couple of newbie authors asked me to edit their DiD stories.

Replies:   Dominions Son
tppm

If it's a straight hebe (14-18) story with some gay scenes, sure, if it's a gay story, no thanks.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

DiD stories


???

The only things a google search turned up are:

Dissociative identity disorder

and

Direct Inward Dialing

Neither of which makes much sense in context

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  Lugh
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

Damsels in Distress stories

http://storiesonline.net/universe/65/damsels-in-distress

and a Google search won't help you much because the last time I tried one I ended up with a lot of crap about a band I'd never heard of, some weird TV show I'd never heard or, and a film I'd never heard of. Gave up after the first 400 hits.

Crumbly Writer

@tppm

If it's a straight hebe (14-18) story with some gay scenes, sure, if it's a gay story, no thanks.

Both are straightforward gay stories, but they're not stroke stories. As I said, mine has three sexual episodes in 10 chapters. I'm not sure about my friends.

In my case, my story is about conflicts in the gay community, so I wouldn't object to an editor editing up to the sex scenes and then skipping over them if it bothered them. But realistically, they're mostly "Insert tab A into slot A" scenes. Out of the three scenes, only one includes penetration (i.e. anal). It's a gay romance story.

@Ernest

they could try asking an author who's posted a couple of gay stories if they'd edit for them. It's because I posted a couple of DiD stories a couple of newbie authors asked me to edit their DiD stories.

Actually, my friend turned up Aerosick, who'd say he 'has no biases' in the "Search for Editor's" area, though he hasn't contacted him yet. I suspect he's intimidated by the perceived anti-gay bias here. He left the site after being constantly 1-bombed and receiving a host of hate mail for his posted stories.

Replies:   Bondi Beach  aerosick
Dicrostonyx

I haven't put myself on the official editors list yet because my time right now is somewhat mutable, but I'm okay with gay content. It doesn't really do anything for me most of the time, but I'm not bothered by it either.

So I'd be happy to proof-read or edit either your stories or your friend's, but I have no real knowledge of either the gay community or the mechanics of gay sex beyond the obvious, so I may not be able to help much in critiquing issues specific to the sex scenes.

I have a fair bit of free time over the next few weeks, so feel free to drop me a line.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Bondi Beach

@Crumbly Writer

He left the site after being constantly 1-bombed and receiving a host of hate mail for his posted stories.


OK, I know this is reported often, but I still don't get it. Not the 1-bomb, that's too easy and the hell with it, but *sending hate mail*? What the hell? "You wrote a crappy story," is one thing, not very helpful, but fairly clear. I hate you [insert epithet du jour here] and I hope you rot in hell is really going out of your way.

Hard to imagine what return they get on the effort, but then zealots maybe don't need reasons. When you're a whack job you're a whack job, from your first cigarette to your ... oh, wait a minute, that's a different song.

bb

Crumbly Writer

@Dicrostonyx

Thanks, Dicrostonyx. That makes two volunteers. I'm not sure how to contact you, though. I'm available via the "Authors" tab, click on the "Email" link. I'll send you the story description.

I'd put the story on hold for awhile, while I concentrated on other things, so I'll resume work on it to get it to you. I'll also pass the word to my friend, Rob.

Knowledge of the details of gay sex aren't necessary. I'm looking for obvious errors, and I hope I present the conflicts clearly enough they can be easily understood (closeted gay man vs. flamboyant drama queen, each challenging each other and their assumptions about what it means to be gay).

aerosick

@Crumbly Writer

Actually, my friend turned up Aerosick, who'd say he 'has no biases' in the "Search for Editor's" area, though he hasn't contacted him yet. I suspect he's intimidated by the perceived anti-gay bias here. He left the site after being constantly 1-bombed and receiving a host of hate mail for his posted stories.


I did his 1st Chapter and there were just a few edits needed. He has a good writing style and the gay content was minimal so far...

Crumbly Writer

The problem is that most amateur editors choose stories to edit based on what they like to read, rather than professional editors who only limit their work based on their own expertise. That limits the access of minorities to the resources they require. Unfortunately, although there are plenty of gay story sites, there isn't any writing supports, like editor hookups. As a result, I've decided we need to volunteer ourselves. I'd done piecemeal editing for my friend, but shied away because my first attempts initially intimidated him.

We (the entire SOL community) needs to support other minority groups (like the transgendered, or even blacks writing about daily encounters with racism--though I'll admit, I've never encountered any of these on SOL--possibly for the very reasons of non-support we're encountering here).

It's not enough for white not to join the shouts of the racists and sexists. If you want to make a difference, you've got to step up and take a stand, putting yourself on the line by actually doing something, rather than simply trying to be polite while keeping you distance from 'those people'.

I ended up in this position by accident (writing a story based on my late brother's favorite criticism of gay culture), but it's pointed out how I've refused to welcome these authors myself.

In short, for anyone out there looking for an editor but not finding anyone willing, send me a note. I'm not as precise about English usage, but I'm pretty experienced about which storytelling approaches work and which don't.

richardshagrin

You won't find many reviewers for any kind of unpopular/low score story. Our instructions from Management require we limit our unfavorable comments to emails to authors. The point of using ("wasting") bandwidth on reviews is to help people find stories they will like. If I don't like a story I don't review it. I gave a 5, once. I'd like to keep my ability to review stories I do like.

If someone who likes that genre volunteers, Management might appoint/anoint him/her as a reviewer, as long as they understand favorable or at least not unfavorable reviews are required to keep your union card. You don't have to give all the stories you review tens. But if you give them ones, why are you recommending the story to others?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

You won't find many reviewers for any kind of unpopular/low score story. Our instructions from Management require we limit our unfavorable comments to emails to authors. The point of using ("wasting") bandwidth on reviews is to help people find stories they will like.

That's understood, Richard, and I'm not suggesting that everyone start reading stories they hate. But I've long maintained, that the scoring system tends to reinforce the status quo, by penalizing minorities, people with different perspectives, or any 'social justice' or other stories.

The fact that it's so difficult finding volunteers for this type of thing emphasizes the issues. It's not like gays are so far out of the norm anymore, and they're a HUGE book buying market, but they're essentially frozen out of websites like this by people's attitudes and public disapproval.

I can count on one hand the number of stories by black authors I've read, and even those didn't venture into describing the issues that blacks face. Those voices simply never get voiced here. I hate to say it, but SOL is a pretty lily white environment, and people voting for what they like only exasperates the problem.

I'd love to see Lazeez open the market, say by creating an alternate associated website for other markets, but given how unreceptive SOL is, and it's poor reputation with other groups, I don't hold out much hope for that occurring. Which is too bad, because the other alternate story sides are in very poor site, and offer few resources or much support.

As much as voting helps authors, and guides readers to better stories, I sometimes consider the broader range of voices we lose by allowing such blatant discrimination.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

As much as voting helps authors, and guides readers to better stories, I sometimes consider the broader range of voices we lose by allowing such blatant discrimination.


That's the price of democracy, I guess. Scoring is open to all; email feedback to authors is open to all (if the author allows). So how does one keep the crazies from spewing their hate?

Sad to say, that's the state of our culture. It's been a fact for years that the anonymity of the internet lets hateful people freely spew their message. Hell ... it needn't be anonymous ... look at all the cyber-bullying the kids have done under their own names!

I don't think it possible for SOL or FS to be a walled refuge, free from retaliation or bigotry, nor do I think that 'filters' applied to voting or feedback would be possible, or advisable. So instead of lamenting the fact that our culture floats a lot of turds, perhaps we should try to rally around a minority author whenever possible. That author must have a thick skin, but positive feedback and support from other authors should blunt the barbs.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@graybyrd

Its probably a good thing that they float. If they sank, the bottom of all rivers and streams would be covered with excrement and rains couldn't wash it away to let you get fresh drinkable water. In the proper place, they provide fertilizer for valuable plants. If they are what they eat, its no wonder so many of our critics are turds.

imsly1

@Crumbly Writer

Is someone writing Obama's real autobiography?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@imsly1

Is someone writing Obama's real autobiography?


I doubt it, because he's classified it as Ultra Top Secret

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

Autobiography is not the life story of an automobile. Its the life story by the author that lived it. Biography can be written by anyone, about anyone. Autobiograpy is self biography, the life of the author. Sometimes the actual writing is done by someone else, or with a co-author who does almost all the work, but to be an autobiography the name on the book as author is the person the biography is about. If anyone writes Obama's autobiography, it will be Obamma, perhaps with a ghost writer doing the work, but the name on the book as author will be Barak Obamma.

Ross at Play
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Is there any editors here willing to edit a gay story? If so, I've got one myself.


If he's still looking, I will try.

I MAY REJECT if for some reason it would take me much too long to do it properly.

I will NOT REJECT because content is not to my tastes.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

If he's still looking, I will try.

He's not working on it at the moment due to his poor health, but he's never posted the story. I'll pass your name along for when he's feeling better.

When we were having trouble finding someone, we volunteered to edit each other, which worked well until I pointed out issues with the story premise (a change in story focus between chapters) which caused problems, so I'm still thinking I may have disillusioned him, especially if he's not prepared to rethink how to tell the story (or how to rework the passages), but he's never admitted as much, and his health hasn't been terrific lately.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@Crumbly Writer

I'll pass your name along for when he's feeling better.

Could you pass my name on now with the explanation
* I am not experienced enough to know I can finish an edit I attempt (slow & my skills may not be what the writer needs)
* I may be able to check that while he is unavailable

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

Could you pass my name on now with the explanation
* I am not experienced enough to know I can finish an edit I attempt (slow & my skills may not be what the writer needs)

Your inability to post is due to a bug in the recent move. Hopefully Lazeez will fix it soon. The posts are being made, but they aren't reflected is the display.

Otherwise, I passed your name along (to the author). I CC:ed you in the email I sent, so you should have received that by now.

I posted about a dozen messages to your previous post, but I still don't see them.

Crumbly Writer

Post from this morning which never went through:

Could I interest either of you in a discussion about the willful self-delusion and stupidity of beliefs in Gods? :)

Have a nice day, and please be kinder to each other :)

Is there a problem with forum replies under the new system? I posted this, hit review to check what I wrote, and the entire post vanished.

Repeating myself again ...

Sorry, but I didn't mean to browbeat, but this is one of (my many) bugbears, since these conditions are not well-understood by society in general and it's also important in an environment like this (where many are likely to suffer from these conditions) that people understand what they're facing.

While I've discussed this in the past, I don't recall Ernest discussing his Asperger's tendency, so I wanted to ensure he understood the distinctions and how the workarounds vary over time. Basically, my response was a pure 'info dump' delivered without context or appropriate phrasing.

Sorry for coming across overly strong (something I NEVER do)! ;P

Lugh

@Dominions Son

@Dominions Son: Heard of phone sex? Direct Inward Dialing is one type thereof. :-)

Apropos the core point here, I would be willing to edit, but I can't say I necessarily can address gay sexual appeal. Sexuality, though, is a very complex thing. I've had potential readers, including other Swarm authors, say that they would refuse to read anything that has MM contact.

Now, I suspect of the at least North American male readers, if you're honest, you also have had MM contact in dormitories, summer camps, etc., where there were no women and hormones were raging. Statistically, though, you're also likely not to have continued the practices. Nevertheless, you may very well have gay friends and are comfortable that they do things with one another. It didn't bother us, while heterosexually married, to have a gay or lesbian couple in the guest room.

There came a time, in the seventies, when a lovely lady, at a swinging orgy, asked "did you like watching me with [other lovely lady]?" Most enthusiastically, I agreed. "Then why shouldn't work the other way? I'd find it incredibily hot to have you and my husband do it to me, but also do each other so I can watch."

Phrased that way, I had no good reason to say why not. And, as I learned, the experience of MM contact with one or more enthusiastic female partners is a very different experience than MM sex, albeit that the latter might have been furtive.

There are a few other variants, which perhaps should have codes, but are getting away from the theme of the thread.

I'm currently doing a do-over story that is somewhat autobiographical. There were a few gay men and women. There was someone of fluid gender who fits well into the story. The story is one involving using sex for influence at the highest levels of government, where there certainly are all permutations.

While the story calls for other than MF and FF, I hesitate to do it at SOL, as I do enjoy comments and don't want a flock of 1's.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach

@Lugh

There came a time, in the seventies, when a lovely lady, at a swinging orgy, asked "did you like watching me with [other lovely lady]?" Most enthusiastically, I agreed. "Then why shouldn't work the other way? I'd find it incredibily hot to have you and my husband do it to me, but also do each other so I can watch."


Second that.
bb

Replies:   Lugh
Lugh

@Bondi Beach

Does SOL need a code for that, although I'm not sure what to call it concisely: "MM contact, with MF participation", which is in the style of a medical diagnostic code.

Another aspect of sexual fluidity: contact with semen. Alastair Crowley's theories of sexual magick* considered "elixir", the mixture of male and female secretions after intercourse,** the most powerful of magical substances. This runs through a fair bit of anthropology. There's no assumption of homosexuality if a man partakes of elixir.

In my stories, one universe is the Le Marquis series, which is named for a real no-limits-except-money strip club in DC in the seventies. I had been having a very pleasant encounter, in a back booth, with a featured dancer, who was another woman who told me that I give head like a lesbian. (high compliment. I bow.) She was turned on, and introduced me to the high-roller apartment. When in there, she said that I had turned her on so much that she wanted to fuck. Nevertheless, I wanted her to finish me orally. She got a funny look, and complied, but afterwards shocked me to say "let's share it." Geese and ganders, it occurred to me, and I winced as her mouth approached mine.

Her snowballing it back and forth was one of the hottest experiences of my life. When she found she wasn't shocking me, she spoke of incredible things. Later on, she set it up for me to have sloppy seconds, including going down on a woman, with the mental image that I was confirming the intense sexuality of a woman who would have multiple partners.

So how does this kind of sexuality get tagged at SOL? Is this MM, both when it's one's own semen, or that of another man? I happen to think of it more as MF with a woman who is seasoned two ways: experienced and flavored.

* Magic with a k is not sleight of hand, but "magic that works".

**Masters and Johnson chose to avoid sensationalism by being very clinical in their writing. To some extent, as I learn the customs of the Forum here, I find that appropriate.

Bondi Beach
Updated:

@Lugh


Does SOL need a code for that, although I'm not sure what to call it concisely: "MM contact, with MF participation", which is in the style of a medical diagnostic code.


MM is such a radioactive tag in the SOL world it's hard to know. I've played with some incidental encounters, sometimes just two guys, more often the guys and one or more women, and I don't think readers were too put off. (Yeah, give the reader a heads up, etc., etc., no question about that.) I think it's hot in the right context (as is every other act, of course). The "don't take the reader by surprise" rule applies always.

Redbud's (sadly short-lived) Fun House universe involved permanent residence if you drank Comus's semen. I don't remember that any of the few stories got that far (my contribution didn't).

This is all beside the point, really. I think one should go for it, and damn the reader torpedoes, but be prepared when and if you see them approaching. If you've given fair warning, it's on the reader to heed. EDIT to add: And SOL is an old hand at the whole "trigger warning" thing.


Masters and Johnson chose to avoid sensationalism by being very clinical in their writing.


I discovered my parents' copy of Ideal Marriage, T.H. van de Velde's masterpiece, when I was old enough to be interested. Clinical doesn't begin to describe it; I couldn't even follow half of what he said, and his poetic interludes struck me as funny.

Later, when I was a high school exchange student in South America, what should I discover on the bookshelves of the study where I did homework, but Matrimonio Ideal. The thing truly was a worldwide bestseller.

bb

Replies:   Lugh
Lugh

@Bondi Beach

Ah. My mother was a psychiatric social worker, and never prevented me from reading anything in her professional library. Truly valuable was Ford & Beach's Patterns of Sexual Behavior, which describes "civilized" behavior, sex in tribal societies, and in animals.

Karpman's The Sexual Offender and His Offenses described paraphilias. As a teenager, I went through it alphabetically, examining each kink to see if it sounded interesting.

While she had the formal education, she wasn't very good at explaining it. When I was 8 or so, I asked the key question, "How does the seed get into the mommy?"

She answered in a classic tech support sort of way, absolutely accurate and absolutely useless: "The male has the penis and the female is equipped to receive the penis." From that, I got a mental image that a penis was detachable, and, held by the "stalk", was presented to one's lady love. I decided that the release button came along with pubic hair.

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@Lugh

So how does this kind of sexuality get tagged at SOL?

(cum)?

@Bondi


I think one should go for it, and damn the reader torpedoes, but be prepared when and if you see them approaching.

I concur, but in that case, I'd post it under a gay pseudonym just so it wouldn't impact your other scores. That way, gay (or other) readers could enjoy it, but it wouldn't drag your own scores down.

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