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richardshagrin

At least for votes, ff beats mm by miles and miles. FM is good, and all the permutations that included F or f and m or M. You could set up a table of six, or more options and roll a dice. With twelve options roll two dice, or with the first die odd is start at the top of the list and even is start at the bottom. The second die roll decides how far down or up the list you go.

Options include one or more of the BDSM triplet. Bondage, with or without discipline, Domination with submission or with submission resisted, and Sadism and/or Masochism. Pain sluts are popular, guys into pain a little less. Either sex can try to be dominant, or taking turns can start a story.

The classic boy meets girl and normally boy loses girl and then gets her. The switch is girl meets girl, etc. Do-Overs are popular. Ones with a sex change have been done, but not to death.

Naked in School probably would need a twist, maybe from a teacher's point of view, particularly if the female teacher needs to take her clothing off. Male domination universe females as sex objects/slaves. Or other way around, XX dominates XY.

Thinking Horndog has an interesting universe, Swarm Cycle, where aliens are on the way to conquer earth and some people can leave to establish colonies, become infantry or space naval personnel, and low scoring takers of the test are sex slaves, the higher the CAP score, the more concubines can be taken by high scorers.

Look through the various SOL Universes, there are some that could be adapted to new stories. The Damsel In Distress universe has perhaps a dozen stories. A little complicated but a good reason to have lots of sex and a trip to the equivalent of medieval times.

There are a whole bunch of "ideas" for stories in one section of this form. I like my Halloween one, where the boy comes to the door dressed like Roy Rodgers and says Trigger Treat. (Roy's horse was named Trigger.) Well, it sounded funnier in my head than on paper.

Story ideas are everywhere, even in the news. Donald Trump kidnaps Hillary and tries to have his way with her. Resistance and perhaps humor ensue. If her husband preferred blow jobs from interns, perhaps she isn't the most convincing sex object.

Marilyn Monroe meets Harry Rheems (the 14 inch guy) and one of the gags was nude Marilyn didn't have nothing on, she had the radio on. Perhaps more current personalities would do better for today's SOL readers. Not all of us are 71 and counting.

Its not getting ideas, you probably have at least a dozen plausible prospects. Just look at the SOL tags. Doesn't Science Fiction or Needles suggest something? Look at some porn. Drink something alcoholic. Watch some movies or television. There are stories everywhere. Steal one and live long and prosper. Star Trek fan fiction, anyone

Switch Blayde

@richardshagrin

Naked in School probably would need a twist, maybe from a teacher's point of view, particularly if the female teacher needs to take her clothing off.


I'm not a NIS fan, but the above caused a story to flash through my mind. The girls would have to be younger than what's allowed on SOL so it's not doable.

It's a story where the teachers have to be naked. Maybe the School Board is at odds with the puritanical pastor who controls the town (think Footloose).

The story would be told through a young innocent girl or girls who know absolutely nothing about the male body or sex. It would be an eye opening experience for them.

awnlee jawking

@richardshagrin


At least for votes, ff beats mm by miles and miles


The site administrators could probably calculate and publish the average rating of all stories with each particular story code. The rest of us can probably make educated guesses.

Unfortunately it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy - readers rate eg mf or MF stories higher, so the site attracts more of them, despite author protestations that they don't care about voters.

AJ

Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

readers rate eg mf or MF stories higher, so the site attracts more of them, despite author protestations that they don't care about voters.


Have you ever even considered the possibility that the majority of authors have similar preferences to the readers?

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

Many have observed that the SOL environment seems hostile towards eg MM, and that the number of authors prepared to tackle that field has diminished over time.

There may well still be a potential readership for MM stories on SOL, but if an author puts MM content in a story it immediately gets 1-bombed by an intolerant few, disproportionately affecting the story's rating.

AJ

Switch Blayde

@awnlee jawking

Unfortunately it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy - readers rate eg mf or MF stories higher, so the site attracts more of them, despite author protestations that they don't care about voters.


Works as designed.

Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

1-bombed by an intolerant few, disproportionately affecting the story's rating.


but doesn't stop many authors from writing in the genre.

Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

There may well still be a potential readership for MM stories on SOL, but if an author puts MM content in a story it immediately gets 1-bombed by an intolerant few, disproportionately affecting the story's rating.


A category search shows 6 new M/M stories just this month. While I don't dispute that the 1-bombing occurs, I suggest that this is not having as strong an effect on authors as you suggest.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Dominions Son


I suggest that this is not having as strong an effect on authors as you suggest.


I'm not into MM stories, but I've written stories with MM in the past. Not for eroticism, but maybe for humiliation or something else. None of those are posted on SOL and none will. The readers do affect authors.

Dominions Son

@Switch Blayde

The readers do affect authors.


Some authors, but not all authors. I am not disputing the existence of the effect. What I am disputing is the strength of the affect.

sejintenej

@awnlee jawking

Many have observed that the SOL environment seems hostile towards eg MM, and that the number of authors prepared to tackle that field has diminished over time.

I don't know about other countries but it is estimated that in real life only about 10% of the population are MM or FF inclined.
IF that is the case then it is logical that such stories would not be universally popular but with such a story content declaration why do the 90% even open such stories?

awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

What we would need to know is the proportion of new stories this month with MM content compared to the proportion of MM stories for an equivalent month several years back. Or better still, compare a whole year.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

Or better still, compare a whole year.


Even that wouldn't tell you anything about what caused the change, assuming for the sake of argument that there is a change. Even aside from active hostility against MM stories, it's a small audience that would be looking for such stories.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Switch Blayde

@sejintenej

only about 10% of the population are MM or FF inclined.


Straight guys read and like FF stories.

awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

Unless you could interview everyone who voted on the current and past MM stories to elicit the reasons for their scoring, the best you could achieve is a statistical likelihood.

Across the developed world (which might exclude the US Bible Belt), awareness and tolerance of male homosexuality has grown enormously in the past few years. So you'd expect an increase in the proportion of MM stories on a site like this, and a decrease would be highly indicative. But I don't have access to the stats to confirm or refute this.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
awnlee jawking

@sejintenej


it is estimated that in real life only about 10% of the population are MM or FF inclined


That figure seems to be propaganda distributed by LGBT activists. Rigorous studies suggest the figure for people who are 100% gay is about 1%. However the figure for people who are bisexual or bi-curious is almost certainly a lot higher than 10%. Personally I think it might even be as high as 99%. People who are in single sex surroundings (eg prison, or certain sports) seem very adaptable.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Dominions Son
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


Unless you could interview everyone who voted on the current and past MM stories to elicit the reasons for their scoring, the best you could achieve is a statistical likelihood.


No, sorry statistical analysis of correlation says absolutely nothing about causation. And the people you would need to interview to support your contention are the authors, not the readers.

Replies:   El_Sol  awnlee jawking
tppm

Don't have anything to say on the actual topic(s), but a knee jerk reaction to the thread title: "...and worth every penny."

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@tppm

"Free advice, Free advice, costs you nothing and worth the price." I say it myself, in writing, in several Forum postings. I didn't say Good Advice. And it wasn't exactly free, you had to spend some time reading it. Take it with all the grains of salt you think it needs. But do live long and prosper.

El_Sol

@Dominions Son

i believe Switch and me make two,

And I have a doozy -- sexual omnivore mind control story set in high school with a hidden mystery that would have led into a mind control homage to Justified.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@El_Sol

i believe Switch and me make two,


Two out of hundreds maybe even more than a thousand authors isn't significant.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Dominions Son

Authors with high scoring stories and lots of downloads deserve respect. Lets value the opinions of all who care to post here, unless they say something that makes it difficult to do so.

How many top 50 stories have been contributed by authors whose opinions might be different than your own? I am glad they did. Chase away enough authors, we might get down to a few hundred stories to read, or have to read Fine Stories to get anything new.

Replies:   Dominions Son
awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

How would interviewing authors elicit the reasons for readers giving MM stories abnormally low scores?

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son  El_Sol
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

How would interviewing authors elicit the reasons for readers giving MM stories abnormally low scores?


It wouldn't but that isn't the issue in contention anyway. The issue in contention is how much of an effect that has on what authors write. You can't get to that without asking authors about why the don't write MM stories.

El_Sol

@awnlee jawking

I thought the question was 'Why aren't there more MM stories?'

Some of us would, but don't here... But that is all irrelevant next to the primary question.

'Is this the site you would go to get those type of stories?'

SOL isn't even where I go for a mind control fix or a superheroine fix, so I'm thinking there are sites catering to a minority sexual orientation that would better serve those needs.

I don't know if there are less of these stories, because I never paid attention until the Swarm Universe lumped males into the concubine role and almost none of the stories treated the males as sexual objects too.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

Authors with high scoring stories and lots of downloads deserve respect. Lets value the opinions of all who care to post here, unless they say something that makes it difficult to do so.


My commend had nothing to do with respecting or disrespecting their opinions or with valuing or not valuing there opinions.

Two authors have said that they don't write MM stories because of the 1-bombing of MM stories. I accept that as the reason they don't write MM stories. However that proves nothing about why hundreds of other authors don't write MM stories.

For me personally, the reason I don't right such stories is that I have no interest in MM sex. If I had such an interest I would right stories like that and to hell with the scores.

Now two authors has said they don't write MM stories because MM stories because they get 1-bombed and one author has said he doesn't write MM stories because he isn't interested in writing MM stories.

Does that say anything about why authors other than those three don't write MM stories? No, it does not.

awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

I believe authors want their stories to be read and they want to improve, so despite what they might publicly state, most want to see good and increasing scores for their stories. Interviewing authors who used to write MM stories and no longer post such on SOL would certainly verify whether they were discouraged due to persistently low scores. But it wouldn't do anything to clarify what I see as the problem, why some readers do it.

Like you, I'm not a fan of MM stories and I normally give them a miss unless the story outline indicates enough counterbalancing features. My own, rather gruesome, contribution was actually intended to be a political allegory. I was forewarned what was likely to happen to it so I switched off scoring. In retrospect perhaps I should have left it on - I'm sure the results would have made educational reading.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son  El_Sol
awnlee jawking

@El_Sol


'Is this the site you would go to get those type of stories?'


Perhaps I'm being naive, but I believe SOL was set up with the intention of providing a home for all types of stories, except those legally forbidden. If you wrote an MM story I'd like to see it posted here and, considering the author, I'd almost certainly read it.

AJ

Replies:   El_Sol
Switch Blayde

MM stories are rather popular on wattpad. But the readership is different there. It's mostly teenage girls. (Those horny little devils LOL)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

Interviewing authors who used to write MM stories and no longer post such on SOL would certainly verify whether they were discouraged due to persistently low scores. But it wouldn't do anything to clarify what I see as the problem, why some readers do it.


But if the authors mostly say something other than what you expect, is there a problem on the reader end that needs clarifying at all?

Dominions Son

@Switch Blayde

It's mostly teenage girls. (Those horny little devils LOL)


That boggles my mind. Why would teenage girls be interested in MM stories?

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Dominions Son

That boggles my mind. Why would teenage girls be interested in MM stories?


I guess the same reason guys like FF stories. And they're teenagers. They're horny.

When I planned to publish my novel traditionally with an erotic romance publisher, I had an explicit MM sex scene. It was done for the horny housewives reading Romantica. When I self-pubbed it, I took the MM sex out (it happened behind closed doors). I had shifted my audience to male readers.

Replies:   El_Sol
El_Sol

@awnlee jawking

It doesn't what the intention of a site like SOL is -- the writers & readers alter the personality of it.

Take my primary MC site -- one administrator decides whether your story is 'MC' enough, he basically controls the site.

On SOL, there's a strong follow-the-leader personality among the writers, which causes clones of good stories to be created. I mean, there hasn't been much originality in the going back to the Stone Age stories, outside of the list fetish. Seriously -- somebody write a go back to the Stone Age where the guy gets nothing except invisible tentacles (Yes, TENTACLE PORN!!!).

Scoring affects the dynamic of a site because as the reverse of the sports saying goes -- It doesn't matter, but it counts.

Replies:   Joe_Bondi_Beach
El_Sol
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

I believe the reason guys like FF stories may be because they imagine walking up to the scene and having it 'magically' become an MFF scene.

That's why my female characters are always bisexual... 'cause I might need a threesome here or there.

El_Sol

@awnlee jawking

But it wouldn't do anything to clarify what I see as the problem, why some readers do it


There are a number of reasons that I see from reading Mom-Groups which have a similar dynamic.

1. Some people think it's wrong and they fight that which is wrong.

Can't blame them... I would fight that which I believe to be wrong if I felt it that strongly.

2. Some people need to validate their choice by bashing other choices.

They're not ACTUALLY sure about their choice and it puts them in a situation where someone making a choice they could have made work creates a level of insecurity that has to be relieved by bashing to others.

This is VERY popular in the mom groups.

3. Some people think they have a Higher-Power given right to tell others how to live.

4. Some people are just assholes.

Joe_Bondi_Beach

@El_Sol

Seriously -- somebody write a go back to the Stone Age where the guy gets nothing except invisible tentacles (Yes, TENTACLE PORN!!!).


Serena Jones started a story with (visible) tentacles a few years ago. The tentacled creature was pretty good at giving orgasms to human females. They were in space rather than the Stone Age. I don't find it in her story list. It was unfinished, so perhaps she pulled it.

bb

Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


There may well still be a potential readership for MM stories on SOL, but if an author puts MM content in a story it immediately gets 1-bombed by an intolerant few, disproportionately affecting the story's rating.


The 1 bombs may stop some people, but not all. Most authors write stories in subjects they like or are happy to explore or have experience with and are happy to be associated with, most do not write stories in areas they aren't happy to explore or have experience with or happy to be associated with. Thus, a lot of areas are avoided by many authors.

Some authors avoid MM stories because they find them a pain in the butt to write right due to lack of experience or interest.

Interestingly I have written an MM story, and it's my third lowest scoring story with a No Sex and a Some Sex story with lower scores. The votes range from 6 to 10 with the bulk of them 8s and a score of 6.8. It's a short story at 17 kb and also the one with the lowest number of downloads, but still gets a few reads each week. That also demonstrates that not all MM stories get 1 bombed - but it might now I've mentioned it.

In general, I don't write MM stories because they don't interest me, mind you, the bulk of my stories are No Sex stories anyway because I prefer to write action and adventure stories and the majority that have sex in them the sex is an integral part of either the plot or the character development.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

"Some authors avoid MM stories because they find them a pain in the butt to write right due to lack of experience or interest."

I don't disagree, but associating MM with a pain in the butt may be humorous. Or not. If they do, it might not be due to lack of experience.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

I'm not into MM stories, but I've written stories with MM in the past. Not for eroticism, but maybe for humiliation or something else. None of those are posted on SOL and none will. The readers do affect authors.

I wrote my first MM story, which explores how gays treat each other (closeted gays responding badly to 'flamers') but I'll never post it to SOL. The environment is too hostile, and I already have enough regular readers who vote my every story with a 1 because of something I once wrote years ago.

As for DS's point, yes, if readers are fans of SOL and enjoy MM stories, I don't doubt they'd post a story or two, or even that the stories here are well received. The issue is that SOL simply isn't receptive to MM stories, and the stories will get a better reception and more encouragement elsewhere. It isn't just the 1-bombs, it's also the vicious personal attacks via email, and the voting of an entire author's work, based on a single story. It's abuse by voting privilege, and it's typical bully behavior, pure and simple. Why would anyone subject themselves to such actions if they can avoid it by going somewhere friendly where the story will be read by more people.

Besides, six stories with some MM features is a far cry from the FF story ratio, and that's not just because straights like reading about lesbians. Plenty of straight women like reading about gay romances.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

That figure seems to be propaganda distributed by LGBT activists. Rigorous studies suggest the figure for people who are 100% gay is about 1%. However the figure for people who are bisexual or bi-curious is almost certainly a lot higher than 10%. Personally I think it might even be as high as 99%. People who are in single sex surroundings (eg prison, or certain sports) seem very adaptable.

Not actually true. While many argue about the flat 10% figure, it incorporates both gay and bi (i.e. anyone who participates in homosexual sex). The 10% figure is close enough for most cases, especially because many closeted gays (or those open only to close friends) will deny it on sexual surveys for fear of being outed accidentally.

By the way, among my gay author friends, a fair amount of their readership consists of straight women and married men who appreciate reading about extramarital gay sex (a major issue at many gay sites is that listing a story as "bi" guarantees few will read it).

@Dominons Son

i believe Switch and me make two,

And I have a doozy -- sexual omnivore mind control story set in high school with a hidden mystery that would have led into a mind control homage to Justified.

Now you've piqued my curiosity. You should send Switch and I a copy, so we can see what it's like. We can all ourselves the "We hate gay sex, but appreciate unusual stories" club (WHGSBAUS for short). 'D

Replies:   Dominions Son
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

It wouldn't but that isn't the issue in contention anyway. The issue in contention is how much of an effect that has on what authors write. You can't get to that without asking authors about why the don't write MM stories.

Such an inquiry would't address all the authors who've abandoned SOL over the years, or those who'd never come here in the first place. What you'd be stuck with is a small subset of the SOL audience who appreciate gay stories, which I'd believe is close to 1%.

@DS

That boggles my mind. Why would teenage girls be interested in MM stories?

There are entire genres of Japanese comics dedicated to 'romantic love' between gay teenagers read by teenage females. My gay friends find several enthusiastic female readers asking for three-way scenes, or even stories about married couples cheating on their spouses with a gay man. It's not as uncommon as you wish!

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Now you've piqued my curiosity. You should send Switch and I a copy, so we can see what it's like. We can all ourselves the "We hate gay sex, but appreciate unusual stories" club


That was El Sol not me.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

My gay friends find several enthusiastic female readers asking for three-way scenes, or even stories about married couples cheating on their spouses with a gay man. It's not as uncommon as you wish!


I don't wish it was uncommon. I just find it incomprehensible. For me, a scene with two bisexual girls getting it on in front of a man is arousing/titillating, a strictly lesbian scene is not that attractive.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

I don't disagree, but associating MM with a pain in the butt may be humorous. Or not. If they do, it might not be due to lack of experience.

If anal sex is painful, then your too inexperienced to know how to do it properly! People of all sexes and persuasions have been having anal sex for thousands of years. Only a few of them walk funny afterwards.

P.S. I'm never been partial to anal stories either.

Replies:   richardshagrin
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

That was El Sol not me.

Sorry, that's what happens when you come in late and respond to dozens of responses, all at the same time.

El Sol, if your listening, I'm curious how other 'straight writers' handle gay stories. Call it 'professional curiosity'.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

I'm curious how other 'straight writers' handle gay stories. Call it 'professional curiosity'.


One way is to limit the descriptions of the sex, as I did in my short story:

http://storiesonline.net/s/63622/naughty-jo

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

I don't wish it was uncommon. I just find it incomprehensible. For me, a scene with two bisexual girls getting it on in front of a man is arousing/titillating, a strictly lesbian scene is not that attractive.

People read for a variety of reason. Only one of which is wish fulfillment. Many read to gain experiences they'll never encounter on their own, or to learn about other people. I wrote a non-sex story about a lesbian with several (serial) girlfriends, and a sexual story about a gay teen (over 18) who berates his boyfriend for being a 'fairy queen'. Neither means I've got a fascination with gays, just that I found them to be fascinating characters. (However, I've had more exposure to the gay lifestyle than most others have, so I'm not as 'put off' by the subject either.)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

One way is to limit the descriptions of the sex, as I did in my short story:

I've included gay characters in my other stories, but again, that's because they were interesting characters, that doesn't mean they're 'gay' stories.

I actually like the idea of non-sex stories about gay characters, and have read them (many best sellers) for decades. If done with humor, and an eye for their audience, they can be a delight.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

. I wrote a non-sex story about a lesbian with several (serial) girlfriends.


Non-sex relationship stories are different, it's teen girls being interested in M/M sex stories that I find incomprehensible.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

It's actually minimal sex and a sort of gotcha ya, ya bastard type of story as against a revenge type story.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

It's actually minimal sex and a sort of gotcha ya, ya bastard type of story as against a revenge type story.

You need to consider your audience in writing such a story. A story with little sex wouldn't appeal (as much) to the gay crowd, while including gay characters at all would eliminate a large number of straight readers. Gay and lesbian readers also avoid stories written by those unfamiliar with the lifestyle. It's one thing tackling unpopular topics, but you still want to attract (rather than repel) readers.

For the two listed stories (of mine) one's based on actual knowledge of the topic (how gay's denigrate effeminate men) and I had to do a massive amount of research for the other (about the lesbian cop).

Short stories are also easier to carry off than longer stories (less change of turning off your readers by giving them too much information).

By the way, my Pro editor positively hated my descriptions of lesbians and lesbian behavior ("No one would ever discuss such topics in public"), but preferred the romantic ending.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

You need to consider your audience in writing such a story. A story with little sex wouldn't appeal (as much) to the gay crowd,


CW,

I was writing a story about a certain type of person and situation, lots of graphic sex scenes was not needed to tell the story, but a little sex was, so that's what I wrote.

richardshagrin

@Crumbly Writer

Really long lived persons to be having any kind of sex for thousands of years.

I am middle aged if I expect to live to be 142.

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