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Is it really incest?

StaticBat83
Updated:

A young woman begins having sex with the man she was raised to believe was her father. It could be that her mom and the guy aren't married but he was someone she suspected was her father or they were married. But after she starts worrying because he got her pregnant she finds out that he wasn't her father. And knowing that he isn't her biological father the question Is it still really incest runs through her mind. She also finds out that her mother had committed true incest (blood related). Her biological father is the man she calls Grandpa. Her mom for some strange reason is okay with her daughter having sex with and getting pregnant by her husband.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@StaticBat83

A stepfather is considered incest by sites that don't allow incest. So I believe those sites would consider it incest because it's a family member even though not biological.

Replies:   Zom  StaticBat83
Zom

@Switch Blayde

A stepfather is considered incest by sites that don't allow incest.

Because in many, if not most, jurisdictions it is illegal as incest.

Not_a_ID

In many jurisdictions it would depend on the type of relationship that exists between the step-parent and the child. In the above scenario, most jurisdictions would define it as incest because a "parental (authority) relationship" has existed from an early age.

Now if the MC was a 20 YO, and Mom went off and remarried while she(the MC) was away at college, things become a lot less clear because no "parental authority" relationship really had/has a chance to develop.

Replies:   Zom
Zom

@Not_a_ID

would depend on the type of relationship

The statutes just don't qualify it that way. Either you are or you aren't. Mostly or not hardly doesn't get a look in.
For the US, the document at:
http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/criminal_incest%20chart%20_2010.pdf
is helpful.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Zom

The statutes just don't qualify it that way. Either you are or you aren't. Mostly or not hardly doesn't get a look in.
For the US, the document at:
http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/criminal_incest%20chart%20_2010.pdf
is helpful.


Ok, what I spoke of was related, but not covered under "incest" but will still fall under criminal law provisions in many states. If you're an "Authority figure" in the life of the person in question, even the "standard" age of consent laws may not apply to you.

You're potentially going to be waiting as late as their 21st birthday before you're clear of some (statutory?) rape laws. For which step/foster parents and teachers alike have been known to get specific mention.

So while they may not be able to charge a person for incest. They're still open to a rape charge if the other person isn't "old enough."

Replies:   EzzyB
StaticBat83

@Switch Blayde

I wasn't asking if it was incest. That would be a question the girl would be thinking. And by the end she wouldn't care. But thanks for the info.

EzzyB

@Not_a_ID

Woody Allen married his adopted daughter when she was 18.

Never heard any legal fallout from that.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@EzzyB


Woody Allen married his adopted daughter when she was 18.

Never heard any legal fallout from that.


Obviously legal where the wedding occurred. No biological relationship, so not incest in many states. As to dodging the rape charge, again, he probably had lawyers advising him as to which states to not engage in certain activities in with his new bride until she was older.

So long as he didn't have sex with her in a state jurisdiction where it was illegal, he was in the clear for both the incest and statutory rape laws.

It also ignores that some of those statutory rape laws were written after Mr. Allen's wedding, so he would have been grandfathered at that point. (Possibly in more ways than one)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

So long as he didn't have sex with her in a state jurisdiction where it was illegal, he was in the clear for both the incest and statutory rape laws.


If she was 18, he was clear on statutory rape in all 50 states. Also there is at least on state(Utah) where kids can get married as young as 14 as long as their parents consent to the marriage and their statutory rape laws include an exception for marriage.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Dominions Son


If she was 18, he was clear on statutory rape in all 50 states. Also there is at least on state(Utah) where kids can get married as young as 14 as long as their parents consent to the marriage and their statutory rape laws include an exception for marriage.


I could swear I saw a state (Washington, I think) that actually had a condition where statutory rape could involve a person over the age of 18 as the victim. But I guess not.

Iowa's code is unclear as cited by wiki? Age of Consent is 16, but if they're a recently enrolled(past 30 days) student in a secondary school and you're an employee at said school, or you're a mental health care provider, or a (juvenile) corrections officer "providing oversight" to the person in question you could violate the statute. Don't know if Iowa provides for it, but I understand some Juvenile Corrections systems can retain people up until they're 21. You could also easily end up with a 19YO High School Student....

In Kentucky, they Juvenile Corrections officers are actually explicitly codified as being able to be subject to prosecution under "sexual abuse in the second degree" if they engage in sexual relations with a person under the supervision of their facility up to the age of 21. However, there are "close in age" provisions if the actor(not the victim) is within 5 years of the age of their victim, and they're also under the age of 21.

In 2012 it seems Michigan made it a criminal offense for a teacher to engage in sexual relations with a student of any age. So I guess it's possible, in theory, that a 60 YO State College Professor who decides to teach a night class, and meets up with a charming 59 YO student they find attractive, they'd best wait on pursuing any sexual acts. Not just on grounds of ethics and other professional constraints, but because they could be charged with raping the 59 year old, even if they consented.

Other note worthy carve outs:

Colorado looks amusing, consent age is 17, unless prostitution is involved and the customer is over the age of 18. In the event of prostitution, age of consent becomes 18. So if your neighbor's grandpa can get a 17YO in their bed in Colorado more power to them. However, if that 17YO was a hired prostitute, they'll not only be charged for soliciting a prostitute, they'll also be charged with statutory rape.

Connecticut is 16, unless you're a parent/guardian, teacher, coach, or other kind of professional (paid) instructor. Then the consent age is 18. If you're a volunteer, age of consent remains 16, so long as you're under 20 years of age. Otherwise age of consent is 18 for anyone you're helping.

If you're under 30 in Delaware, you can legally have sex with a 16 year old, otherwise, you need to wait until they're 18. Unless they're within 4 years of your own age, which obviously won't apply for the over 30 crowd. doesn't look like they're concerned about "positions of authority."

Maryland more or less mirrors Colorado. Age of consent is 16, but if you try to "solicit" someone (presenting themselves as) under the age 18 for sex, they can get you for rape. Of course, they also have a "position of authority" clause, which bumps it up to 18.

Massachusetts is odd? Age of consent is 16, unless it seems, they're a virgin("of chaste life"), in which case it is a crime to "induce" them into having sex until they turn 18. Of course, they don't seem to have provisions for the 16 year olds to have sex with each other either, so you're then playing chicken and the egg until they turn 18 I guess.

Nebraska is funny. Age of consent is 16, but there is a law prohibiting you from "lewdly inducing" a person under the age 17 into "carnally knowing" another individual.

New Jersey gets wild: Age of consent is 16, unless you're (any type of) an authority figure, or you have a familial relation closer than that of a 4th cousin, in which case age of consent is 18.

I guess in MA and NE, the sex is legal for you, so long as the 16YO solicits you for sex. If they're the sexual aggressor, you're safe. If you're the one initiating sexy time, watch out. Still pretty odd.

Crumbly Writer

Getting back to the original post, which was suggesting an alternate incest story, is seems like the focus is backwards. Most incest stories work because they're about people finding themselves crossing a line most consider the final line in sexual relations. It's the forbidden attractions that's the draw, not whether he's really the father or not. As such, the plot would be largely anti-climatic, as the supposed even has already occurred, meaning the participants have already crossed the imaginary line, so there's really no drama left over whether it was technically a sin or not. For all intents and purposes, everyone involved is already guilty of all but the actual law.

A better, and more traditional approach, is to have someone fall for someone, only to suspect (based on comments or other's reactions, that they are actually related.

StaticBat83

I just wanted to do something other than actual incest in my story for a change.

Replies:   REP  Crumbly Writer
REP

@StaticBat83

do something other than actual incest


In most stories about sex between two people who are related, incest becomes a focal point of the story.

What about a story about two related people that does not use the word incest and does not address the relationship as incestual?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@StaticBat83

I just wanted to do something other than actual incest in my story for a change.

That's why I prefer 'pseudo-incest' stories, where the characters either knew each other in another life—and carry their attraction over to their new lives—or they're 'Not-Quite Human' and thus are controlled by different influences than 'mere human' do.

(i.e. the incest is 'real', but the justification is distinctly different.)

Crumbly Writer

@REP

What about a story about two related people that does not use the word incest and does not address the relationship as incestual?

If it looks, sounds and tastes like incest, then it's incest. If anyone reads enough to make the necessary connections, they'll consider it incest. Your only question is: will sites like Amazon bad it for violating their no-incest policies. However, since they rarely examine the text of their included stories, it really doesn't matter. They don't care what's in a story, but if ANYONE files a complaint, they'll shut you down in a moment with NO appeal process!

On Amazon, copyright violations get a lengthy appeal, but reader complaints are instantaneous and irrevocable.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Crumbly Writer

On Amazon, copyright violations get a lengthy appeal, but reader complaints are instantaneous and irrevocable.


Oh yeah! The old double-standard lives on. Maybe the next time we find a plagiarist, we should complain about the content of their book instead of them violating a copyright.

The copyright complaint takes down a few books, the content complaint takes them all down. Go figure?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@REP

The copyright complaint takes down a few books, the content complaint takes them all down. Go figure?

Not quite. A content complaint gets the story banned. Repeated complaints (two or more) will get the author banned, however that's not uncommon, as most come back using a new name and email address. Common practice with short (10,000 word) porn 'novels'.

Replies:   Joe Long
Joe Long

@Crumbly Writer

Once I finish my book I'm going to try to get it on Amazon. It will probably come in a little over 150k words.

It's a young adult/coming of age/romance. There actually isn't a whole lot of sex (in all those words maybe 5 times they have intercourse, plus a few BJ's & HJ's), and not terribly graphic (I've toned it down by having the 1st person narrator use nicer words to describe the action) but it does involve teenagers, with the love interest being 14.

richardshagrin

"Top definition

outcest

Outcest is when you have a sexual relationship with someone who's not related to you. Opposite of incest

Outcest is illegal in Alabama"

In and out, in and out. Bothcest.

Replies:   Joe Long
Joe Long

@richardshagrin

I live in up in the mountains of Pa where I've done a lot of genealogy. I remember speaking a few years ago to a woman from a neighboring county who's dad had married his 2nd cousin - and so did his dad, and his grandfather.

Or when I found a line of descent where for four straight generations a son married a woman with the same maiden name as his mom (and it was the same name in each generation).

A few months ago I told my wife I found something I had never seen before - two brothers marrying a mother and a daughter (brother one married the mother, brother two married the daughter). Before the weekend was out I found three more instances.

I'll end with one of my great-great-grandmother's brothers, for whom both wives #2 and #3 were his sister's daughters, the second when he was 43 and she 16. A niece of the two sister/wives was 13 when she married a 33 year old (and bore him 10 kids)

My daughter said the stories were enough to convince her to marry a black man (figuring he wasn't related)

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