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Lost Gender switch

rusty555

The once was a story about construction (?) worker who ate some special food items that caused a gender switch from man to woman. any thoughts?

Cowboy622
Updated:

There is a gender switch story from boy to girl called "Once More with Feelings" by The Night Hawk that might prove to be a good read. I enjoyed it several years ago.

rusty555

thanks!

rusty555

that's not the one I was looking for.... but enjoyable!.... I know that story is out there... I just can't seem to find it... probably right in front of me I know... but....

Replies:   stupidboy804
StaticBat83

Seems like a Manga I read once.

redlion75

sounds gay 1 way or the other

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer

@redlion75

sounds gay 1 way or the other

Transgender & gay are two separate things. Gays are happy with their gender and have no desire to change.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
redlion75

if a man changes to a woman to sleep with a man that is gay.if he sleeps with women as a woman that is also gay.

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer

@redlion75

if a man changes to a woman to sleep with a man that is gay.if he sleeps with women as a woman that is also gay.


Clueless..................

Replies:   Dominions Son
stupidboy804

@rusty555

It possibly sounds like Jan by Janna Leonard
http://storiesonline.net/library/storyInfo.php?id=66396

Replies:   rusty555
Dominions Son

@Wheezer


Clueless..................


In Seattle?

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer

@Dominions Son

In Seattle?


Clueless, not sleepless... :^P

zellus

It might be this, you're looking for;
Remix by Detroitmechworks
http://storiesonline.net/s/54697/remix

Crumbly Writer

@Wheezer

Transgender & gay are two separate things. Gays are happy with their gender and have no desire to change.

You also can't assume that transgendered people are closeted homosexual, as their sexual identity isn't tied to their orientation. Some are gay at present, and want to to straight, while some at straight at the moment, and wish to become homosexual in their new identity.

It gets ... confusing!

richardshagrin

Rather than open a new topic, I'd like to mention a story I probably read here, or maybe not. As a sort of a takeoff on the Naked in School meme, science had progressed in changing sex of individuals that part of a year of high school had to be spent as a member of the opposite sex. Obviously more than a week, it may have been a school semester, or maybe a whole year. One of the plot elements was the problems a girl character had when her boyfriend spent time as a girl, and how that relationship was affected. If you were male it gave insight into the problems of being female, and also the other way around. Probably made more sense than being naked for a week.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
redlion75

so if a straight man becomes a woman and still sleeps with women he is not a lesbian? if a straight man becomes a woman and sleeps with men he was not gay before? did we change the definition of homosexual? as a non homophobic man that does believe in a supreme being that made mankind with a plan and who does not make mistakes I want to be there when a tranny tells that god there was a mistake when you gave me a dick.

Replies:   Dicrostonyx  sejintenej
Dicrostonyx

@redlion75

so if a straight man becomes a woman and still sleeps with women he is not a lesbian


What you have so ineloquently put your finger on is the simple fact that our society's understanding and acceptance of sexuality is still in its infancy, and language has not yet had time to catch up. What you see as a contradiction is simply a result of modern English using archaic definitions of sexuality to try to explain evolving concepts. It is the words which are contradictory, not the the ideas.

Since you believe in a supreme being, let me use a classical theological puzzle to explain this: "Could God create a stone so heavy that even he could not lift it?". Logically, it appears that both answers, yes or no, would suggest that God is not omnipotent. The common response to this puzzle is that the contradiction only exists in our minds and language, because humans, being imperfect, are unable to truly understand perfection.

as a non homophobic man... I want to be there when a tranny tells that god there was a mistake when you gave me a dick


First, using the word "tranny" contradicts your claim of being accepting; many people in the LGBTA+ communities consider that word to be a slur.

As to your question, that's easily answered by modern doctrine: God did not make a mistake, rather the creation was intended as a challenge to overcome so that the person could better themselves. That betterment does not have to mean accepting the sex that was provided physically, it could refer to having the courage to fight against and overcome the challenges put forward by a backwards society. Thus, the transsexual person is actually glorifying God by declaring their sexual identity to be other than what is visible. After all, is not the soul more important than the body, and what is gender identity if not part of the soul?

Dominions Son

@Dicrostonyx

ponse to this puzzle is that the contradiction only exists in our minds and language, because humans, being imperfect, are unable to truly understand perfection.


A very good answer!

Ernest Bywater

@Dicrostonyx

The common response to this puzzle is that the contradiction only exists in our minds and language, because humans, being imperfect, are unable to truly understand perfection.


May not understand it, but I an always recognise when I meet a perfect arse hole by his behaviour.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

Nobody's perfect.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

Nobody's perfect.


Oh some are - perfect arse holes, perfect idiots, and the most common is the prefect waste of space - most of them are in elected positions.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

Oh, you mean oxygen thieves.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

Oh, you mean oxygen thieves.


I prefer to think of them as wastes of oxygen. It's not like someone else owns the oxygen they breath.

redlion75

so by saying that god is perfect and has a plan for us that we do not know and made you a man then you change his perfect design/plan you know better then god as to what you were should be? and people think doctors have a god complex.since all of those 5yr olds know the difference between a boy and a girl it is ok for them to decide to be which ever they choose?please tell me you don't buy that crap since most people don't know what they want to do for a living til college how can they decide to change sex before they lose their first tooth?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@redlion75

so by saying that god is perfect and has a plan for us that we do not know and made you a man then you change his perfect design/plan you know better then god as to what you were should be?


Your arrogance astounds. To even ask that question implies that you have perfect knowledge of what God's design/plan is.

How do you know that that isn't part of his design/plan?

Replies:   BlinkReader
BlinkReader

@Dominions Son

I don't know anything about god or gods.

I believe than there should be something "above us" to judge us at least at the end of our lives, but every day of my live that my thinking shrink with evidence of shear human stupidity and brutality.

Where I'm living people have been killing each other thousands of years because somebody believes differently than some other human being.

Even today they are killing each other (even just for different color of their eyes).

If this is part of some plan, I'm not willing to participate in it, thank you very much, no matter what it may cost me after I start to feed worms with my body...

Dominions Son

@BlinkReader

Where I'm living people have been killing each other thousands of years because somebody believes differently than some other human being.


Much evil is done by men who claim to know God's plan. That doesn't mean that their claims are true or that God is responsible for the evil they do.

richardshagrin

@BlinkReader

"Even today they are killing each other (even just for different color of their eyes)."

Are you sure about eye color? I haven't heard about that being a reason for war.

Replies:   BlinkReader
BlinkReader

@richardshagrin

Sorry to put you down, but what you can read in your newspapers, or Internet, or watch on your tube is only small and very filtered part of the world ...

rusty555

@stupidboy804

thanks!!

transdelion

Quite disconcerting to be talked about as if I didn't even exist.

Until quite recent times in several southern European countries of which many descendants live in North America today, people of red hair were considered unnatural and put out to death upon birth. It was said they were created by the Devil, and were not the creation of God. It didn't matter what they said, we now know red hair is a natural variation and doesn't control whether someone is bad or good. Being transgendered is today's equivalent.

Gender is a funny thing. All babies begin with the equipment to develop either gender present on their bodies. At one early point in gestation, over the course of a couple of hours, hormones flood the baby and its gender is set - it then develops its gender in accordance to its DNA, at least usually. If the hormonal balance is unusual, such as mothers taking estrogenic drugs as they were prescribed by their doctors in the 1950's (as mine was prescribed DES), then gender that doesn't match the DNA can develop, or not be clearly one or other such as for the intersexed. Denying it can happen doesn't make it not exist.

When people have a baby with an ear defect, surgery or other treatment is sought and desired. When people have a baby born with something unusual about its genitals, the baby is considered evil. Pretty arbitrary, if you ask me.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@transdelion

When people have a baby with an ear defect, surgery or other treatment is sought and desired. When people have a baby born with something unusual about its genitals, the baby is considered evil. Pretty arbitrary, if you ask me.


I don't think I've ever heard anyone call transsexuals evil. Mentally ill and/or delusional yes, but not evil.

Personally I reject even the latter.

My understanding is that the condition of intersex babies is very rare, too rare to account for the majority of transsexuals. If you can point to a source with statistics that show otherwise, I would find that quite interesting and it would give a whole different view on the entire issue.

On the issue of treatment, the medical community does, or at least used to pressure parents into almost immediate corrective surgery. This was/is a very bad idea.

I have read a disturbing number (especially considering that the condition itself is supposed to be very rare) of horror stories about botched infant gender assignment surgeries (sometimes leaving the child with no genitalia at all), or cases where the child developed psychologically as the opposite gender from what the parents chose for assignment.

As hard as it may be to grow up intersex, it's likely better to wait until the child itself is old enough to make an informed choice of it's own.

Replies:   Capt Zapp  Not_a_ID
Capt Zapp
Updated:

@Dominions Son


My understanding is that the condition of intersex babies is very rare, too rare to account for the majority of transsexuals.


Anyone ever consider that these so-called 'birth defects' are supposed to be the next step in human evolution?

edited to add italics text

Replies:   Dominions Son
transdelion

True, re: intersex and transbabies. On a personal level, however, since I realized what was going on with me and came to understand about intersex and transsexualism, I have believed that having a body of one gender, and the brain of another made me be of both genders, and being in that state meets at least one definition of intersex. I realize that for every 5 transgendered people, there are 25 opinions, and this is only one of mine.

There is some scientific basis for this opinion, as some structures in transsexual brains have been found to match the goal gender rather than the gender of birth. However, studies into this area have been somewhat limited because they require the brains of those who have died for the research. If you're interested in tracking down further information, let me know and I'll locate the specifics. I transitioned more than 15 years ago, and have accepted the "why" and moved on so I no longer have these citations at my fingertips, but could with a bit of notice.

I agree about "correcting" the gender of any baby, because we don't know what's going on in the brain as to gender when the child cannot speak for itself. When I spoke of treatment and surgery, I don't mean they should be imposed on a child or an adult by any one else, but obstacles shouldn't be placed in the way, either, if that's the path chosen by the individual once they are old enough to have a sure sense of themselves. I completely agree with you.

About being "evil:" it's true that the word "evil," as such, is only used occasionally, but all of the words, such as that transpeople are screwy, perverted, sick, child molesters, deserving of ridicule and scorn, on and on and on, are presented by the media and society every day in many ways are simply too numerous to list. I employed shorthand when I used that one word. Often it's more subtle, in that as soon as someone knows I am trans, suddenly I'm just not included in the conversation or events. That's a message, too.

My approach is to simply live my life. I speak up in small ways in order to maintain my own equilibrium, but I'm not trying to change the world, nor think that I will. I love SOL, it's an adult community that deals with adult issues, with writing that authors care enough about to provide with their very best efforts, and where most of us bare some part of ourselves. I think I've become a better person in the process.

Dominions Son

@Capt Zapp

Anyone ever consider that these so-called 'birth defects' are supposed to be the next step in human evolution?


If we were seeing true functional human hermaphrodites I might think so.

However, that's not the case. Most are cases of females with a clit large enough to look like a smallish penis. A few extremely rare (on the order of single digits per million births) cases involve a baby with a vagina and a real penis, but never with both testicles and ovaries.

There might be some evolutionary advantage with true hermaphrodites.

However, I can't see any kind of advantage for cases of a person that appears hermaphroditic but is only reproductively functional as one gender.

sejintenej

@redlion75

if a straight man becomes a woman and still sleeps with women he is not a lesbian? if a straight man becomes a woman and sleeps with men he was not gay before?

It's all in the mind. If your mummy put your two baby sisters in the same bed that does not make them lesbians. If you had to sleep in the same bed as your brother (perhaps the house was too small) what did that make you?
Homosexuality is a state of mind and entirely different to sex changes. I can imagine that higher being so offended when told he/she had made a mistake - perhaps that caused the last Big Bang.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Not_a_ID

@Dominions Son

My understanding is that the condition of intersex babies is very rare, too rare to account for the majority of transsexuals. If you can point to a source with statistics that show otherwise, I would find that quite interesting and it would give a whole different view on the entire issue.


That is my understanding. Of course, tracking wasn't really happening until recently either. Intersexed at birth is one thing, gestational abnormalities are another, and that is one I could conceivably run with without much trouble.

Now as to the cause of the "gestational issue," be it a congenital thing on the part of the mother or father, a prescription drug, hormones or other things in our food supply or drinking water, or other environmental factors, or some other combination of all of the above. The answer will take extensive study, and likely many lifetimes to find a definite answer, even if you manage to live to be 200 years old.

Of course than you have environmental factors after birth, as well as nurture factors to bring into the mix. Based on recent findings regarding sexuality in general, I'm suspecting that for some(not most), gender identity is rather inherently fluid and subject to environmental/social factors, and could see evolutionary reasons for many of them, and why they're likewise comparatively rare. So it gets back to "It's complicated" and one size does NOT fit all, even for that group.

For example, a "beta male" that prefers sexual activity with other (betas) males isn't as likely to draw much ire from an Alpha, as they're not viewed as competition. Likewise, "Alpha" females that go to a masculine extreme have potential situational survival advantages too.

Which isn't getting into odd quirky things like sexual response studies that keep further indicating that a woman who doesn't respond sexually to sexual imagery of other women are the exception(indicating they're at least somewhat bisexual), while men have a much much larger population of men (as a %) who don't respond to imagery of other men. One theory being that female (partial) bisexuality may be a survival mechanism so they have a chance to lubricate to lower their risk of injury before their turn is up for intercourse, such as in the event of what we'd call rape happening in prehistoric contexts.

Dominions Son

@sejintenej

I can imagine that higher being so offended when told he/she had made a mistake


Of course maybe it's not a mistake, but a challenge/obstacle to overcome.

Since no one truly knows what his/her intentions and / or plan were/are, it's hard to say.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

awnlee jawking

@richardshagrin

Changing sex at will on a daily basis could be fun.

"I think I'll be a man today and give PMT a swerve."

"I think I'll be a woman today so I can use the nicer restrooms while travelling."

AJ

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@awnlee jawking

"I think I'll be a woman today so I can use the nicer restrooms while travelling."


In 20 years, this will likely be rather moot, most newer construction restroom facilities aren't much more than a sign change away from being unisex. Aside from the presence or absence of urinals, which make sense from a water conservation perspective if nothing else(fewer gallons per flush, if they require flushing at all these days).

Probably going to see a lot more facilities where the toilets are partitioned off into small rooms of their own, some with sinks inside(family/disabled), most without, and then a common area for (more) sinks and whatnot. It's just a matter of when the next restroom remodel happens in those locations.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

Probably going to see a lot more facilities where the toilets are partitioned off into small rooms of their own, some with sinks inside(family/disabled),


We may even see a switch away from common areas entirely towards a hall with a set of single occupancy bathrooms.

Either way, unisex bathrooms are likely going to be the only equitable solution to which bathrooms transsexual should be using.

redlion75

but do we really want hormonal teens using the same restroom as the other gender? why can they not just use the one set aside for the gender they are not what they want to be? if you have a penis then use the one set aside for you and IF you change that then by all means take your new self into the new one

richardshagrin

@redlion75

I've seen that dichotomy referred to as setters and pointers, if that isn't too dog-like.

Dominions Son

@redlion75

but do we really want hormonal teens using the same restroom as the other gender?


Why not, they generally do so at home, just not at the same time. It's a bit of work, but a 5 stall standard restroom could be replaced with 4, maybe even 5 single occupancy bathrooms.

transdelion

I saw some statistics the other day, the number of restrooms crimes committed by transgendered people, was, wait for it....0.

http://mic.com/articles/114066/statistics-show-exactly-how-many-times-trans-people-have-attacked-you-in-bathrooms#.Wsgv8kMJz
http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533

However, there have been men born men MASQUERADING as women (not transgendered people) who have raped women in restrooms. These men are no different from someone pretending to be a cop who pulls women over to rape them. We don't ban cops because someone pretends to be a cop and uses the disguise to commit a crime. Someone pretending to be a woman for criminal purposes is NOT transgendered just because they look the part.

I have a full beard, and a voice that has become reasonably masculine. What do you think women would say if I walked into their bathroom?

A transwoman who is on estrogen loses a great deal of her muscular strength after being on hormones for a while. Surgery for transwomen creates genitals that externally look IDENTICAL to biological women. If she walks into a male bathroom, do you think for a moment she is safe from any man who is violently predatory toward women?

The bathroom reasoning is a hollow excuse for transphobic laws.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@transdelion

I saw some statistics the other day, the number of restrooms crimes committed by transgendered people, was, wait for it....0.


However, there have been men born men MASQUERADING as women (not transgendered people) who have raped women in restrooms.


Even those real instance of sexual violence in bathrooms are so rare as to not be a significant issue.

There are valid reasons other than fear of sexual violence for people to be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with someone who doesn't share the same plumbing.

The possibility of rape is not and never has been the primary reason why we generally don't make public bathrooms unisex outside of single occupancy bathrooms.

Surgery for transwomen creates genitals that externally look IDENTICAL to biological women. If she walks into a male bathroom, do you think for a moment she is safe from any man who is violently predatory toward women?


Do you really think it's appropriate to hand wave away the concerns of women who might be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a transwoman who hasn't had that surgery yet?

Many men would be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a woman but that discomfort has nothing to do with fear of sexual violence.

Dismissing that discomfort as invalid isn't going to advance your cause in fact it will and already is backfiring.

Moving away from multi-occupancy to single occupancy public bathrooms is the real solution here.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Dominions Son

Do you really think it's appropriate to hand wave away the concerns of women who might be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a transwoman who hasn't had that surgery yet?


How are they going to know in most cases? Unless they fail to secure the stall and pull a Mrs. Doubtfire and get caught taking a whiz while standing....

Flipside concern is the preoperative transwoman walking into the men's room while dressed as a woman. Yeah, like that's going to work out well for them in many cases. It's almost an open invitation for some punks to provide them a beatdown.

The issue is complicated, and I am likewise not a fan of simply going full stop "well, if Johnny says he feels like a girl today, (s)he should use the girls restroom/showers/etc" as that is just asking for abuse, the other extreme presents problems of their own. I.e. Johnny shows up in drag and wants to be Jane today, and they force 'Jane' into the boys locker room...

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son
Updated:

@Not_a_ID


How are they going to know in most cases?


I don't know, but it doesn't matter. That doesn't give you the right to hand wave away other people's concerns.

By the way, if anyone finds out even outside the bathroom context, word will get around and people will find out.

The only way to ensure a secret stays secret is to be the only person who knows.


the other extreme presents problems of their own. I.e. Johnny shows up in drag and wants to be Jane today, and they force 'Jane' into the boys locker room...


My own opinion is that in the case you describe here, it would go equally badly for 'Jane' in the girls locker room. Do you really think a bunch of high school girls are going to be welcoming of a pre-operative transgirl? And if 'Jane' is pre-operative, there is no way she is going to be able to use the girls locker room without getting found out.

The average man might be stronger than the average woman, but that does not mean that every man is stronger than every woman, and 'Jane' will be out numbered.

If you think there are any safe gym locker room / shower options for a trans kid in a high school you are fooling yourself. As to bathrooms, likely the safest option is a single occupancy bathroom.

redlion75

so now we have to redesign every building to allow single occupancy bathrooms? that would cost thousands of dollars most schools cant afford to pay their teachers better where would they get the money for that? even worse try getting 1k kids to go to the bathroom and to class before the bell rings with that kind of set-up. this country has gone so far down the " I am special so I deserve/demand to be treated special" hole it has become a joke around the world.we have soldiers that want to wear their religious head wear or facial hair instead of the required UNIFORM appearance like every other person or some freak wearing a strainer (the pastafarians) on their head for a dmv photo as a religious hat or worse yet the parents who are raising their child genderless so as not to confuse it. like that is not fucked up or the kid taken away from the family that has been raising her for 5 yrs because they were not native americans just to be placed with family of her step-father who is not native American either and never knew about the kid. yet rich people can adopt a kid from a different race and it is ok since they vote liberal. if we went back to the way things were back before jfk with the exception of the civil rights bill (which the dems voted against in the 50s)we would be a lot better off.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@redlion75

so now we have to redesign every building to allow single occupancy bathrooms?


I rather doubt it would take nearly as much money or effort as you think it would to convert most standard public restrooms into a short hall and several single occupancy bathrooms. Could probably be done without the loss of a single toilet.

Replies:   richardshagrin  Not_a_ID
richardshagrin
Updated:

@Dominions Son

might be a little more complicated/time consuming to clean. Unless Janitors get more time or give more attention (and do something else less often) likely each individual cubical will be dirtier more of the time. Not that they are that clean now, most places. One option would be to sign out keys and record who used it last. The last recorded user of a filthy bathroom would have to clean it, so a new user would have incentive to report a problem before it became his or her problem. Or they could save some money and add a bunch of porta potties outside and anyone who wanted privacy could use one of them. The teachers and staff would have indoor toilets, of course. Maybe they would require the students to water and fertilize the lawn, no need for enclosed facilities at all. Or they could restrict indoor facilities to the higher grade point students, and probably the football team.

Might be a naked in school story scene or two in the new restroom approaches.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Dominions Son

I rather doubt it would take nearly as much money or effort as you think it would to convert most standard public restrooms into a short hall and several single occupancy bathrooms. Could probably be done without the loss of a single toilet.


If it was done like many of the newer restrooms are being done, there would be a few stalls lost. Going from a 3/4 inch partition divider between stalls to an actual wall with 2-by-4's and sheetrock(or brickwork) means an immediate loss of some space.

But that isn't much different than has already happened in most school locker rooms, where the open bay showers that could handle a couple dozen students at once are now often individual shower stalls, albeit the current iteration is a common (un)dressing area outside of the shower stall itself, but that doesn't prevent many from waiting until they're in the stall to undress or get dressed as it is.

The challenge would be the urinals, easiest solution is simply get rid of them, except as previously mentioned, there are other more tangible advantages to having them available, beyond the expedient of reducing the odds of guys hosing down toilet seats with urine because they don't want to touch the seat to lift it up.

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@richardshagrin

One option would be to sign out keys and record who used it last. The last recorded user of a filthy bathroom would have to clean it, so a new user would have incentive to report a problem before it became his or her problem.


That is so 20th century. Place electronic door locks on all toilet stalls, then tie entry to student id's or some other form of RFID and just let big data do the rest. The challenge still comes down to assessing the state of the stall before/after each user. In a perfect world, you could possibly put a camera in the stall that would take a picture of the stall prior to granting the next person entry, but seeing as we don't live in a perfect world, and what would probably be done with a ToiletCam in reality, that option won't fly.

Maybe they would require the students to water and fertilize the lawn, no need for enclosed facilities at all.


While in theory that could work with their urine up until the ground was saturated with ammonia and starts killing the vegetation, the reality in much more problematic. Their actual stool(feces/shit) however is another matter, as that becomes a public health hazard almost immediately, and that is without getting into the smell.

Might be a naked in school story scene or two in the new restroom approaches.


There actually have been NiS stories where they simply remove the gender designations from all the restrooms/locker rooms, and also remove all privacy partitions in those facilities as well. Nobody gets any privacy. I can also think of one where there were students involved in the outdoor restroom activities as well. Although most NiS stories keep the boys and girls restrooms for most if not all of their story run, and at most will remove the door on one or two stalls in each restroom expressly for the use of the program participants(as they're supposed to use the facilities provided to the other gender).

But if you want to go full out naturist or nudist as you prefer, then yes, the option of simply doing away with gender designated facilities and all privacy partitions is an option. Although even most practicing naturists around today would likely take exception to that. They may want to be able to be naked in public settings, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they want to be watched while dropping a deuce.

Replies:   gwydioncomyn
gwydioncomyn

@Not_a_ID

anybody ever find the story that was the original posted question? the stories that have been suggested are not those, since neither of them are about a construction worker or food based changes...

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