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Why

redlion75

Out of curiosity why do some writers have multiple stories started the they go incom/inact and never finish a single 1?

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Ernest Bywater

They get lost for some reason, and can't finish. That's why I don't post until after I finish the story. If I run into problem, that does happen from time to time, I put it aside until I can.

Replies:   Lapi
Lapi

@Ernest Bywater

I am one of those who post stories but let them become unfinished. I think I had 100 good reasons, health, family issues, etc but mostly it comes down to poor scores, change of where story was going, hitting a direction I did not want to go pirate actions for long stories and new ideas so started a new story. Basic tenet was/is to find a story that people and/or SOL thinks deserve more than a 6 or 7 rating.

I have deleted 20 or so stories, will do 50 more and re-post some or finish a few others. I use downloads as a measure, if a story has I'll delete, if is is high, 30-50,000 for example I'll finish it.

I will never agree with SOL that a story with most scores 8-10 deserves a 6 score while crap stores get a 8-9. Bad form I guess.

helmut_meukel

Often they have an idea for the story but not thought through to the end and start writing – and posting. Some chapters later they realize they had painted the MC into a corner. When they find no way out they stop writing and posting the story.
Sometimes the best solution would be to go back two or three chapters and rewrite the part. These chapters are already out however. Pulling them and posting new ones would admit they had botched it, so they simply stop writing this story.

There is another probable cause:
The writer has a bright idea and starts posting, then another idea for a story comes into his mind and he starts this new story, intending to finish the older story later.
Some days ago I looked-up a writer and most of his stories are inactive. Guessing from the dates he had this problem.

Don't forget the cases where RealLife® interferred. To take up an unfinished story after a long pause caused by health problems is probably less helping convalescence then starting a fresh new story.

HM.

Ernest Bywater

@Lapi

I will never agree with SOL that a story with most scores 8-10 deserves a 6 score while crap stores get a 8-9. Bad form I guess.


All stories are scored using the same scoring system, so what applies to one applies to all. However, the scores are the reader's view of what they like and don't like, so any differences in scores are down to how the readers view them.

Replies:   robberhands  Lapi
Ernest Bywater

@Lapi

Basic tenet was/is to find a story that people and/or SOL thinks deserve more than a 6 or 7 rating.


There's a large number of readers who are like me, we don't score a story until after we finish reading the whole story. Thus, any story not completed is never going to get scored by us. Some readers have been known to score a story low if it gets the yellow stripe. Take too long between posting chapters and many readers will give up on a story, regardless of how great it is.

Ernest Bywater
Updated:

I have one story in my to be finished pile that I had to put aside because a key plot element related to current world politics which got overridden by events, thus I put it aside until they settled down and now have to rework the plot to account for the changed situation. I'll get it done and posted at some point, but have other priorities which are higher right now.

Edit to add - that's another reason why I don't post until I finish the story. It also allows the editors time to polish the story too.

helmut_meukel
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


There's a large number of readers who are like me, we don't score a story until after we finish reading the whole story. Thus, any story not completed is never going to get scored by us.


I tend to do the same, however I've scored some stories in progress if I thought they deserve a really high score.

AFAIK, the SOL scoring system remembers my scoring and when I score the story again when finished it replaces my old score with the new one.


Take too long between posting chapters and many readers will give up on a story, regardless of how great it is.


The greater the story the longer I'll wait for new chapters. I've given up on some stories however, especially when the author slowed down posting significantly after the first five or so chapters.

HM.

robberhands
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

All stories are scored using the same scoring system, so what applies to one applies to all. However, the scores are the reader's view of what they like and don't like, so any differences in scores are down to how the readers view them.

That's somehow a funny statement regarding the scoring system. Basicly it's all true, the funny thing is you also could dispute each but the first point.

All stories are scored using the same scoring system,...

That's true.

...so what applies to one applies to all.

The scoring formula artificially widens the margin of the scoring results, which means the stories receive different score reductions.

However, the scores are the reader's view of what they like and don't like,...

Actually, due to the scoring system, the displayed score of most stories is about one point lower than the readers view the story.

...so any differences in scores are down to how the readers view them.

Not entirely; as mentioned before, stories receive different reductions to their scores. The closer to the median of the scores a story ranks, the higher the reduction of its score.

Edited the sloppy last part

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

There's a large number of readers who are like me, we don't score a story until after we finish reading the whole story.


And thus creating a problem if the author is looking to the score for feedback on whether to continue. I'm not saying you're wrong - there are advantages and disadvantages to whatever point a reader chooses to score a story.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@Lapi

I will never agree with SOL that a story with most scores 8-10 deserves a 6 score


I wonder whether part of the problem is the disjoint between the raw scores and the overall rating. I haven't tested this but I suspect a story attracting all 8s from readers would end up with a rating well below the median. A reader can compare a story's rating with others, but it's not clear how good the story actually is.

Perhaps a solution would be to remove the inference of a link between score values and ratings by instead publishing the percentage of how many stories have a lower rating. So the best story on SOL would be rated at 100.00% and the worst at 0.00%.

AJ

samuelmichaels

@awnlee jawking

And thus creating a problem if the author is looking to the score for feedback on whether to continue.

If you have enough readers, it works out -- some percentage of them score immediately, and the author has his feedback.

I think that's more of a problem for sites like Finestories, which has fewer readers.

robberhands

@awnlee jawking

So the best story on SOL would be rated at 100.00% and the worst at 0.00%.

With more than 40,000 stories on SoL such a display would become a bit over-crowded.

Ernest Bywater

@robberhands

The scoring formula artificially widens the margin of the scoring results, which means the stories receive different score reductions.


I totally disagree with this statement, because all the scores get treated in the same way to simply shift the median, thus they all shift to the same degree.

Replies:   robberhands
Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

I haven't tested this but I suspect a story attracting all 8s from readers would end up with a rating well below the median.


I very much doubt it, because all the scores get shifted by the same degree, so anything above the median will stay above the median and the relative relationships between the stories will stay the same.

The process is a lot like a toy I had as a kid in the 1960s. The toy had three major points in a set of scissoring arms. One end was fixed while the other two points had a pen and a needle in them, and you could swap them about. With the needle in the middle position you could trace and image and the pen would draw you a perfectly enlarged version, swap them over and you can trace an image to have the pen draw a perfect smaller version. In both cases the new image was a different size to the original, but everything was still in perfect relationship to everything else within the image. - - the same is true of the score system in all the stories remain in perfect relationship to each other.

No point in bitching about the scoring system, it isn't going to change again, so you're best to just accept it as is.

awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

I very much doubt it, because all the scores get shifted by the same degree, so anything above the median will stay above the median


The median raw score allocated by readers seems to be more than 8, certainly based on the scores I can see for my stories. So if all the readers of a story award it an 8, the final rating will be below the median rating.

I'm not bitching, just trying to think of a way of reducing the confusion about what meaning can be ascribed to a story rating.

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Vlad_Inhaler

@Ernest Bywater

the same is true of the score system in all the stories remain in perfect relationship to each other.

Not quite true, the highest 5% and lowest 5% of the votes are discounted, that is to try and handle the unabombers and the "friends" / multiple-ids. I suppose you could say your statement is 90% true.

robberhands

@Ernest Bywater

I totally disagree with this statement, because all the scores get treated in the same way to simply shift the median, thus they all shift to the same degree.

From SoL's FAQ concerning the weighted score system:

The score weighing formula figures where the story's raw score sits between this median and the extremes of 1 and 10. Then it calculates the same relative location for a median of 6.00. So if a story's raw score is equal to the raw scores median, it will end up with a score of 6. if it has a perfect 10 score, it remains at 10. If it has a raw score of 1, then it stays at 1. Stories with raw scores closest to the raw median are moved the most on the scale. Stories closer to the extremes are moved less. The raw scores median is calculated twice per day.

Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

The median raw score allocated by readers seems to be more than 8, certainly based on the scores I can see for my stories. So if all the readers of a story award it an 8, the final rating will be below the median rating.


The official scores all get shifted by the same degree, so any gap existing before the shift will stay the same after the shift - thus there is no widening of the gap, as you said before.

Lapi

@Ernest Bywater

You bring up a very good point. The only thing is I got the low(6) scores BEFORE the story went yellow(1 Year) without updates.

A couple of stories, only 2 or so (of 100 plus) at first were 8.5 and 9 then went to 6 a day or 2 later but little difference in votes.

Lapi

@Ernest Bywater

If that is so, then why even have SOL change the score or revise what the readers vote. Old stories are not revised neither are stories by long time authors it seems. If the reader votes matter so much why change the score?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
aubie56

For what it's worth, I have been writing and posting for about 11 years, and my score on the same story has drifted down as Lazeez manipulated the scoring system.

Off and on, I have complained about the scoring, but all that has gotten me is lower scores! Several times, I have blocked voting, but I have reinstated it because I was trying to cooperate with Lazeez.

I have canceled scoring for my latest story, and I don't know if I will ever allow it again. Oh, I probably will at some time in the future, but I am in no hurry to do so at the moment. I hate the current scoring system because I think it cheats me as an author. Several people have written me to say that they will not bother to read one of my stories unless it gets at least an 8.0. That sounds pretty stupid to me, but what can I say about it?

Personally, I wish everybody would quit allowing voting on stories. I'd like to see how Lazeez would respond to that!

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@aubie56

I wouldn't call the scoring-system on SoL a 'manipulation', since that implies an intention to cheat. I also very much doubt your complaints had any influence on your scores.

Personally I'm also no big fan of the system, for various reasons, but neither do I care a lot about it.

From the onset of posting a new story I find the incomming scores somehow exciting. Later, when the score slowly settles, it's as exciting as watching grass grow.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
sejintenej

@awnlee jawking

There's a large number of readers who are like me, we don't score a story until after we finish reading the whole story.

And thus creating a problem if the author is looking to the score for feedback on whether to continue.

Whilst I am one of those who generally waits to the end to give a score I have on many occasions messaged an author about a chapter along the lines of "bl**dy good". If others are like me (and I have seen enough to think so) then worthy authors are getting the praise that a good score would otherwise give

Replies:   aubie56
aubie56

@sejintenej

I have to agree with you on that.

Ernest Bywater

@Lapi

If that is so, then why even have SOL change the score or revise what the readers vote. Old stories are not revised neither are stories by long time authors it seems. If the reader votes matter so much why change the score?


The system is set up to make the scores from the different scoring system period relevant to each other.

From what I remember of Lazeez's old blogs that got lost when a server died some years back, the site has been running for about 20 years and the scoring system has had a number of changes in that time, not sure how many but I think it's something like 5 or 6 times. Anyway, the system didn't used to be as resilient as it is now, and it had some faults, which is why the changes were introduced. However, Lazeez did have the scores from the previous period and he processed them so they were all adjusted to a particular median, I think it's 6. The effect is the old scores were all processed the once, and only those in the current score accounting period is adjusted with the new new scores. The effect is along these lines (although I don't know the actual dates, so these are for explanation only):

Assume 5 periods over 20 years of 4 years each so you have score counts of P1 years 1 to 4, P2 years 5 to 8, P3 years 9 to 12, P4 years 13 to 16, P 5 years 17 to now. The scores for the periods P1, P2, P3, and P4 are adjusted so they have a median of 6 and those new scores are locked into the system as such. Period P5 scores are processed under the current system and recalculated as required. The score displayed for a story that came into existence in P5 has only P5 scores, while a very old story will have the scores for the first 4 periods locked in unchanged and only the few scores during period P5 will be adjusted then added to the previous period scores and averaged. The end effect is all the stories with scores from earlier periods only have the more recent scores recalculated to meet the current median shift because the older scores have already been permanently shifted. Thus any changes there aren't as obvious, but they do occur, I know because I've copies of stats on some stories from several years ago I can compare with today's stats.

Another thing to keep in mind is the actual adjustment of the scores doesn't occur until after a certain number of scores are lodged on the story, then it's adjusted after each score. I think the magic number is 20, but I'm not sure and too lazy to check. But say you write a brilliant story and it gets 19 tens, you can see that but the readers can't, then on the 20th vote of a 10 the score processed with the top and bottom 5% cut and then adjusted by the current media weight which is calculated on all the scores lodged on all the stories during the current accounting period which is some years old.

Anyway, the only stat I see as relevant is the number of downloads, not the scores.

Replies:   awnlee jawking  Lapi
Ernest Bywater

@robberhands

From the onset of posting a new story I find the incomming scores somehow exciting. Later, when the score slowly settles, it's as exciting as watching grass grow.


Exactly, but I watch the downloads more than the scores. But after the first 48 hours I stop watching them. I only ever look at the scores when we have discussions on them.

awnlee jawking
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

Anyway, the only stat I see as relevant is the number of downloads


That's also a potentially misleading statistic. For example, a story with a large number of downloads might actually have a relatively modest number of downloads per chapter. My current WIP is an example of that. I'm keeping the chapter sizes small because I'm making it up as I go along and I'm finding it easier to write that way. If you divide my 'potentially interesting' number of downloads by my number of chapters, it more accurately reflects the story's poor title and description, and its level of appeal.

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Switch Blayde

@redlion75

why do some writers have multiple stories started the they go incom/inact and never finish a single 1?


There must be a 100 answers to that question. Even for the same author, it might be a different answer for different stories.

My guess is, the longer the story the more chance of it being abandoned. If the story is short, the author probably knows the basics and how it's going to end. So they know the story they're writing and write the beginning, middle, and end. And, of course, they can get it done quicker. I always recommend that new authors start out with short stories.

With a long story on SOL, I don't believe that's the case. So:

The author might get bored with the story.

The author might not know where to take it.

The author might write themselves into a corner they can't escape.

If feedback is motivating them, the lack of feedback.

If scores are motivating them, the score.

Of course, the last two might be consistent across all their unfinished stories so it's perplexing to understand why they keep starting a new story. Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results."

Lapi

@Ernest Bywater

E B you have almost described the process but WHY do it. Someone at SOL told me it was because The readers vote too high and don't know how to vote so WE change things to a 6 or so.
That was on the old voting system like in 2012 or so but ...????

It is an Oxymoron to say Readers votes are the measure then to revise them according to what someone thinks they should be. Wait, what am I thinking. Didn't Canada have a King or a Queen who made all the decisions? Actual I like Canada, worked there 3 years with Provincial sanction, dated a Banff Springs girl and worked for a consultant of BP, enjoyed both Toronto and Vancouver areas.

As I told Lazeez, it is his site, he does a superb job running it and can do what he will. In my opinion though the changing of votes does not reflect what readers think. 'Let them eat CAKE' Ehh.

Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

For example, a story with a large number of downloads might actually have a relatively modest number of downloads per chapter.


That's depends on how and when the story is read. There are two sets of counters activated on each story (I'll ignore reader stories read counters here) with one for the story and one for the chapter read. Every time withing a SoL 24 hr day you visit any page of a story the story counter will only click once within that day, the same is true for each chapter.

This means if you open and close the same chapter of the same story 25 times in the one day each will only register a count of one. It also means if you open a story and read 25 chapters that day each chapter and the story will get a count of one. However, if you open a 25 chapter story on day 1 and read 15 chapters then open the story again on day 3 to read the rest of the chapters the story will get a count of two (one for each day you opened the story) and each chapter will only get a count of one. That's why the chapter count totals never match the story count totals in your author stats.

Now, when you post a 25 chapter story over 25 weeks and a person reads each chapter as it's posted then each chapter will get a count of 1 but the story will get a count of 25 due to it being visited 25 times over the 25 weeks. This only occurs when the story is posted or if it's so long a reader takes days to read it. After the full story is up many readers will reader the story in one sitting so it only gets one story count then, unless they read it at a time the SoL day clicks over, then it'll get a count for each day it's accessed.

You can game the system a little by posting a bunch of small chapters every few days or each week, as against posting a smaller number of large chapters. However, some people, like you said, prefer to write smaller chapters. I write chapters that are as long as relevant for that chapter, but when I post the story after I complete it I actually cut the story up into larger pasting groups of between 5,000 to 10,000 words to give the readers a good read with each post. Some posts will have a single actual story chapter, while some can have up to five or six story chapters in them. The only times I post less than the target is when it's a short story or the final posting or a stand alone foreword.

Ernest Bywater

@Lapi

E B you have almost described the process but WHY do it. Someone at SOL told me it was because The readers vote too high and don't know how to vote so WE change things to a 6 or so.


One of the very early systems did have people consistently voting too high, which is why the system was changed at that time, but that hasn't been the case for the last few changes. I believe that was the reason and the change where the adjustment to a median of 6 was introduced. One past change was to introduce the option of voting on three aspects of the story including the technical aspects and the story appeal and plot or a simply appeal only vote. Another change was to eliminate the the twin system and make it back into a single appeal only vote system. Then there were complaints about people 1 bomb voting stories and fanbois 10 voting everything a writer they liked posted causing blips, so the change to cut the top and bottom 5% to minimise the impacts of such behaviour was introduced. With that last change Lazeez said that was it, no more changes to the voting, no matter what, and he also refused to discuss it any more because nothing he could do would satisfy all of the authors, so he settled for a system that made the bulk of the readers happy while the bulk of the authors accepted the system. There are still a few who don't like it at all, but then I suspect, from their posts, there's no voting system in the world they like.

Ernest Bywater

@Lapi

Readers votes are the measure


The reader's votes place the stories in an order based on their collective like of the stories. Nothing that happens with the median adjustment changes that order at all, but it does make it easier to relate the votes from the different voting periods to each other.

I've been posting stories here for well over a decade and have seen the effects some of those changes have had on the scores of my stories, and it bothers me not at all. I don't write to get high scores, I write what I like to write - end of story. If some people like the stories, well and good, if they don't, that's also well and good. I get emails attacking the tense I write in the point of view I write in, and others supporting both those aspects, however, I've used past and present tense, 1st person and 3rd person point of view, and I now tend to 3rd person present tense because I feel they give the story a more real feel of now in the story, but some don't like it because they think past tense is the only true way to write. Those emails don't bother me at all, neither do the scores.

Replies:   sejintenej
PotomacBob

@Ernest Bywater

What was the name of that wonderful toy?

helmut_meukel

@PotomacBob

What was the name of that wonderful toy?


Pantograph
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantograph

HM.

Dominions Son

@PotomacBob

What was the name of that wonderful toy?


I never knew just what it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLYefZkOMB0

Ernest Bywater

@PotomacBob

I couldn't remember the name before, but thinking about it since I'm sure it was called a Sketch o Graph or a Sketch a Graph - something like that, and it worked exactly like the Pantograph in the link in Helmut's post. I had great fun with it as a kid back in the early and mid 60s.

Geek of Ages

Oh cool, a thread in the Lost Stories forum with 30-odd replies. That sounds interesting!

...oh, it's just another thread about the scoring system.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Geek of Ages

...oh, it's just another thread about the scoring system.


ir didn't start that way, but ended up there, like many do.

AmigaClone

@Ernest Bywater

There are still a few who don't like it at all, but then I suspect, from their posts, there's no voting system in the world they like.


I think some authors would only be happy if a scoring system was set up so that their stories would get at least a 9.5 and at the same time ensuring that all other authors would not be able to get a score higher than theirs.

Replies:   robberhands
zellus

I think that the problem is that it's a 10 point system rather than a 5 point system (amazon and others...). In a 5 point system 7 and 8 would most likely be a 4. And a 4 i almost 5, but 7 or 8 is not almost 10.

robberhands

@AmigaClone

As I've already mentioned, for me as an author the scoring is a source of time-limited excitement.

I'm dissatisfied with the scoring system as a reader, which means as a voter. When I vote on a story I deem worth an 8 with a current score of 7.5, I expect my vote to raise its score but what actually happens is that I lower the score. The weighted voting system not only ignores my intention, it reverses my intent.

But of course I'm no dummy - adapt and overcome. I simply add an extra point to all my votes and live with the scoring system happily ever after.

Replies:   sejintenej
awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

With that last change Lazeez said that was it, no more changes to the voting, no matter what, and he also refused to discuss it any more because nothing he could do would satisfy all of the authors


Lazeez is a reasonable person and if someone came up with the perfect scoring system for this site I'm sure he'd give it due consideration.

Look, there it goes now, flying around in the sky going oink oink oink ;)

AJ

Wheezer

@awnlee jawking

And thus creating a problem if the author is looking to the score for feedback on whether to continue.

I think that is the wrong attitude or reason to posting. I've seen more than one example of various authors holding their unfinished or just started story hostage to the scores.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
sejintenej

@Ernest Bywater

I now tend to 3rd person present tense because I feel they give the story a more real feel of now in the story, but some don't like it because they think past tense is the only true way to write.

By writing a story in the present tense you run the risk of writing yourself into a time corner.

I have just finished reading the chapters which have so far been loaded of a historical story. Historical in that it recounts the start of a relationship some time ago but in the current era, events moving forward and a major change in the relationship in the latest chapter.
Because it is written in the past tense one innately realises that there is more to come: IF it had been written in the present tense throughout there is not the same sense of waiting for more updates.

Yes, stories can certainly be written in the present tense and give a "real feel of now" but that is just one of the elements used by the able writer to make the reader feel that he or she is actually a fly on the wall.

boydpercy

I think more writers should have the attitude of JPB. He says he writes for an audience of one: himself and then offers to share with online readers. Whether or not anyone else likes his stories, he has met his goal.

sejintenej

@robberhands

But of course I'm no dummy - adapt and overcome. I simply add an extra point to all my votes and live with the scoring system happily ever after.

Fine but I very strongly doubt if the majority of readers have read this and like threads

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@sejintenej

Fine but I very strongly doubt if the majority of readers have read this and like threads

Absolutely, I'm quite certain the vast majority of readers have no idea how the scoring system works. I've received several mails regarding voting and scores and each mail revealed their misconceptions.

awnlee jawking

@Wheezer

Morally I agree with you and I loathe blackmailers. But since it's not illegal on SOL (AFAIK) to adopt such tactics, it remains a legitimate tool for authors to assess whether readers like a story enough to continue it.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@robberhands

There's a recent review in which the reviewer assesses a story as underrated by at least 1.25. I'm not sure the reviewer fully understands how the scoring system works :(

AJ

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@awnlee jawking

There's a recent review in which the reviewer assesses a story as underrated by at least 1.25. I'm not sure the reviewer fully understands how the scoring system works :(

Most probably, since there is only one person who has an in-depth understanding of the voting system.

Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

By writing a story in the present tense you run the risk of writing yourself into a time corner.


Whatever tense you use can paint you into a corner if you're not careful. One thing a lot of people forget is even in present tense for what's happening in the story now, when you recount a past event you use either the past tense or establish it as a flashback.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Ernest Bywater

@robberhands

I'm quite certain the vast majority of readers have no idea how the scoring system works.


From a reader's perspective when they score a story they need only pick on point on a scale of 1 to 10 on how much they liked or disliked a story. It isn't that hard.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@sejintenej


Because it is written in the past tense one innately realises that there is more to come: IF it had been written in the present tense throughout there is not the same sense of waiting for more updates.


The non-fiction book "Killing Lincoln" is a historical account of what happened in the past and is written in present tense.

Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

when you recount a past event you use either the past tense or establish it as a flashback.


That's the same. In a present tense story, you write the flashback in past tense because it happened previous to the current time in the story (the present).

In fact, that's one advantage of writing in present tense. The flashbacks are written in simple past tense. Write a story in past tense and the flashback has to be written in past perfect tense which can be annoying to read.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

From a reader's perspective when they score a story they need only pick on point on a scale of 1 to 10 on how much they liked or disliked a story. It isn't that hard.


Except I've gotten emails from readers who can't understand why my scores aren't higher because they relate the score showing to the 1-10 score they give.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

People are easily influenced:
If most scores are higher than 8, then voting less than 8 becomes psychologically impossible for most people. How can you give a story a vote lower than the average when it's fairly readable?

That's a quote from the FAQs concerning the scores on SoL and I agree with it.

How often can you rate a story slightly higher than its displayed score, then watch the score drop after your vote, until you wonder, what's wrong?

Replies:   sejintenej
Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

That's the same. In a present tense story, you write the flashback in past tense because it happened previous to the current time in the story (the present).


I beg to differ, Switch, you recount a past event in past tense, or you flashback to the event and re-live it in the present tense.

robberhands

@Ernest Bywater

Reflecting an event in past tense or re-live a flashback in present tense are both viable options.

sejintenej

@Ernest Bywater

From a reader's perspective when they score a story they need only pick on point on a scale of 1 to 10 on how much they liked or disliked a story. It isn't that hard.

When you get Robberhands adding a point because he understands "the system" and the general populace getting their votes reduced ....

Surely votes are there to massage authors' egos, persuading them to write more or plan better next time.
Downloads follow votes - a popular author has a head start over the less known / less popular

sejintenej
Updated:

@robberhands

switch blade wrote


People are easily influenced:

If most scores are higher than 8, then voting less than 8 becomes psychologically impossible for most people. How can you give a story a vote lower than the average when it's fairly readable?


I admit to having given a five vote. That was on a chapter which was just readable but I didn't bother with the rest. I can't remember how many stories there are but I certainly don't have enough months left to read any but the better stories.

edit: Robberhands quoted switch blade and it is the quote I have taken - I cannot find the original. Hence the odd ascription

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

Surely votes are there to massage authors' egos,


Numerous times in the past discussions about voting before Lazeez said he'll not discuss them anymore, he had said the voting system was there simply as a guide to assist the readers by providing a system where other readers gave a simply story evaluation - or words to that effect. He did make it clear the voting system was for the readers and not the authors, which is a major reason for why he got fed up of the authors bitching about the voting system. there's no system that will satisfy all the authors, so why care about what system is used, as long as it treats all the stories in the same way, which this one does.

Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

I beg to differ, Switch, you recount a past event in past tense, or you flashback to the event and re-live it in the present tense.


That's interesting. I don't write in present tense so it never came up for me. But it seems odd to me. It's the tense that determines the point in time in the story.

I've seen dreams in past tense stories written in present tense (in italics). I am not a fan of that either.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Switch Blayde

@sejintenej

Surely votes are there to massage authors' egos, persuading them to write more or plan better next time.


Nope. Votes are there strictly for the reader.

Switch Blayde

@sejintenej

edit: Robberhands quoted switch blade and it is the quote I have taken - I cannot find the original. Hence the odd ascription


He didn't quote me. He replied to one of my posts (hence my name in it), but he quoted SOL's FAQ.

sejintenej

He did make it clear the voting system was for the readers and not the authors, ............... there's no system that will satisfy all the authors

That is Lazeez intention but given that it is for the readers why do authors gripe about one scores?

Scoring may not officially / intentionally be for authors' benefit but they do seem to watch the scores which takes us back to the meat of my post.

Authors might think that the system does not suit them perfectly but a) it is what they have and it won't be changed, b) it does give an indication of reader opinion even if it has imperfections and c) would they prefer no scoring at all?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

It's the tense that determines the point in time in the story.


It's the tense that decides the point in time of the story in relationship to the narrator or speaker at that point.

In Finding Home I have Al recount and event from months earlier by having him start the event in the current now, then he notes his mind goes back to that day, and the following sub-chapter is an accounting of the event as a flashback of most of the event period, with the next sub-chapter opening up with him returning to the current now to finish the tale outcomes.

Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

That is Lazeez intention but given that it is for the readers why do authors gripe about one scores?


A group of authors did a lot of bitching about trolls 1 bombing stories based on a story tag or two without actually reading the story, so Lazeez instituted the top and bottom 5% cut as a way to deal with them. I have to take the blame or kudos for that, because I suggested it to Lazeez way back when - it's what they do with the ice skating events - the judges give their scores and the top and bottom score are culled before they calculate the average.

Replies:   robberhands
Geek of Ages

By the by, if you listen to people talk about things that happened to them, you'll discover that people do sometimes talk about things that happened in the past in the present tense.

robberhands

@Ernest Bywater

A group of authors did a lot of bitching about trolls 1 bombing stories based on a story tag or two without actually reading the story, so Lazeez instituted the top and bottom 5% cut as a way to deal with them. I have to take the blame or kudos for that, because I suggested it to Lazeez way back when ...

Take the kudos. I don't think anyone is bitching about this aspect of the scoring system. It's perfectly fine measure to lower the effect the outliers have on the scores.

@sejintenej:

That is Lazeez intention but given that it is for the readers why do authors gripe about one scores?

Authors gripe about scores because they are a critique of the story we wrote and we grouse about any form of critique. Furthermore, the scores are the most visible advertisement of a story and a bad score is bad advertisement.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
redlion75

I ask 1 question and start all this. Daaamn I ask good questions.

Replies:   Geek of Ages  sejintenej
Geek of Ages

@redlion75

I think it's more that there are a bunch of people on here who think they're right and have time on their hands to argue inanities on the Internet.

sejintenej

@redlion75

I ask 1 question and start all this. Daaamn I ask good questions.

70 replies? docholladay is at 239 replies so far. Nice start

Replies:   docholladay
awnlee jawking

@robberhands

Authors gripe about scores because they are a critique of the story we wrote and we grouse about any form of critique. Furthermore, the scores are the most visible advertisement of a story and a bad score is bad advertisement.


I think the scores of the Halloween Contest stories before the authors were made public are most illuminating.

AJ

docholladay

@sejintenej

70 replies? docholladay is at 239 replies so far. Nice start


For me its not a matter of numbers. Its a question of how many ideas are discussed. Sure most will not amount to much, but a few might help give workable ideas to the writers and their editors. Those ideas hopefully lead to more stories.

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