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Charlotte's Movie

karactr
Updated:

I'm looking for a complete copy of Ken Randall's A Beautiful Mess; a version he titled Charlotte's Movie. He pulled almost all his work from SOL in 2015 and the version on his asstr site is incomplete. Anyone know where I might find it?

Vlad_Inhaler

What is the legal situation on passing stories across?

Oyster

AFAIK:
The official stance, thinking and letter of the law is that passing a story around is violating the copyright laws and is illegal, ie: you are making an illegal copy, only possible loophole would be you deleting your copy after you passed it on to someone.

Replies:   karactr
karactr

Not trying to break the law here guys. I don't mind paying for a published work, I just can't find it. If it is not possible than I just move on to something else. I liked the shorter version, but I also like more smut. ;)

Oyster

I do not think this particular story was ever published for money anywhere and the only copies floating around are those made by readers for their own use.
The reasons why the author took his stories down are on his blog, so you'll probably not find a copy online (unless one of those amazon plagiarists grabbed it before it was removed).

karactr

That is actually quite what I was afraid of. Bummer

karactr

@Oyster

I may be mistaken, but as long as the correct author is attributed the work, and it is not a licensing issue, the work can be passed (but not posted) without the author's permission. I think.

Oyster

You are, at least in this case, most likely mistaken.

Here's my reasons why (based on my limited knowledge of American and Canadian copyright laws):
- Ken Randall's works are copyrighted (a notice like his "Copyright© 2009 by Ken Randall" is not even necessary)
- there is no disclaimer or text allowing for non-profit reproduction, etc.
- KR as the copyright holder has the exclusive rights to make copies, etc.
- the copy in this case would not fall under the fair use doctrine
- first sale doctrine does not apply if the one sending the file keeps a copy for himself (if it is even applicable at all)

---

That's the legal stuff out of the way.
Now on to reality:
KR will most likely not go after someone sending out copies of his work via mail, etc. , but Lazeez would have to remove any mentions of illegal download links on these forums (at least after getting the Canadian version of a DMCA takedown notice, but I believe he'd crack down hard on it even before getting one).

Disclaimer:
I do not have a copy (nor do I want one) of this story and I am not encouraging people to start swapping/copying stories via mail or private messages.

Dominions Son

@Oyster

first sale doctrine does not apply if the one sending the file keeps a copy for himself (if it is even applicable at all


At least as to US law, per the DMCA, the first sale doctrine largely does not apply to digital works (unless it is on physical read only media).

My impression was that karactr might have been thinking the story had a Creative Commons license*

It probably doesn't, so he's still probably wrong.

*For those who don't like hot links: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/

karactr

Sorry. Wasn't trying to cause a ruckus, but it seems I may have. As much as I would like to read the full version of this story--the shorter version, while good, seems broken and and incomplete in spots--I think I will give up on pursuing obtaining a copy. I can understand the author's reasons for no longer wanting it out there given his stated objections and some of the probable content hinted at in the posted version.

Crumbly Writer

@Oyster

- the copy in this case would not fall under the fair use doctrine

For some unknown reason, Congress passed an exception to the 'fair use laws' exclusively for electronic media (probably at the instigation of the MIAA). While you can give anyone a copy of a print book you've read, and can even sell it to anyone you want, it's illegal to 'loan it' to someone electronically.

However, legally, as long as you don't 'profit' from the work, and don't market it, there's virtually nothing they can do about it. Even if they file suit, it's extremely unlikely the case will ever be heard, and unless you negatively hurt his sales, no court will award enough damages to make it worth his while. (Again, it's an incredibly unpopular copyright stipulation shoved through due to the financial backing by the Motion Picture Association, so most people resent the limitation and refuse to pay it much heed.)

Typically, many ebooks post an entry on their copyright page requesting that readers reading an illegal copy, respectfully purchase their own copy, but that's about as much as you can do.

Replies:   Dominions Son
LonelyDad
Updated:

According to the Berne Convention, and I think American copyright law, as interpreted, agrees, as soon as a work is created it is automatically copyrighted to the creator until such time as the copyright expires, is reassigned by the current holder, or the current holder gives permission to use. This is what some of the authors here do. The give permission to copy and disseminate as long as the action is free, the work is not modified in any way, and the original copyright notice is included.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@LonelyDad

or the current holder gives permission to use.


When I place a story on SoL I give them the legal permission to use or display the story, and via that I allow the site members to read the story. I do not assign anyone else the write to make copies to hand out to anyone at all. So while you can tell someone to check out my story on Sol or FineStories you can't give them a copy of the story from the site.

Mind you, I also sell e-pub versions and print version via Lulu, if you buy a copy and hand the copy over to another person to read, you can legally do that - first sale doctrine covers that provided you hand them the copy you purchased and not one you made from it.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

For some unknown reason, Congress passed an exception to the 'fair use laws' exclusively for electronic media (probably at the instigation of the MIAA). While you can give anyone a copy of a print book you've read, and can even sell it to anyone you want, it's illegal to 'loan it' to someone electronically.


Being able to loan someone a book has nothing at all to do with the fair use doctrine. You are talking about the first sale doctrine.

And yes, the first sale doctrine is of limited use with digital media, because in only applies to digital works fix in a permanent physical for (read only storage)

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