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Formatting Error When Posting?

KimLittle

Any old hands have an idea why the following might have happened?

I submit by pasting in text (I write in TextEdit).

The paragraph should have read (and was like this at the source):

My heart melted. I was the original reason she'd been pissed. If I'd just apologised at the time or the first chance I'd had, she would have never had that experience with Josh. She would never have had to feel like she was feeling now. I sighed.


but instead posted as the following:

My heart melted. I was the original reason she'd been pissed. If I'd just apol
[HORIZONTAL SEPARATOR LINE]
the time or the first chance I'd had, she would have never had that experience with Josh. She would never have had to feel like she was feeling now. I sighed.


Any ideas for future submissions?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Capt Zapp

Sometimes the posting engine has a hiccup. If you find this happens, just re-posting the chapter usually takes care of it. Some people have lost whole paragraphs or more.

Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@KimLittle

the normal codes for a Horizontal line are

Horizontal rules, a '*****' or '-----' or '______' or '++++++' (two or more instances - without the quotes) will all be converted to horizontal rules. or the html < hr > command.

How it got them out of what you quote is beyond me, but there is a poltergeist that lives in the wizard and does odd things from time to time.

richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

A poultry geist may be too chicken to identify itself.

Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

(two or more instances


Can't be two. I use two hyphens "--" instead of an emdash and it doesn't convert it to a horizontal line. (At least I sure hope it's not doing that.)

Crumbly Writer

I hate to suggest it, but the SOL submission engine seems to have issues with large blocks of text. I've also had issues when a single chapter spans several webpages (generally at the 8,000 or 10,000 word mark). Very often, when it divides the chapters, it will trash the text at the divide point.

As Capt. Zapp noted, it's easily solved by reposting, but it reinforces the notion to limit chapter sizes. Readers will almost never alert you to a bad post, but will simply stop reading. A few will comment, but it's difficult for an author to read each line of a huge file to ensure it's correct, especially when he has to wait hours to see whether it posted correctly or not!

Dominions Son
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


Can't be two.


Straight from the formatting guide. http://storiesonline.net/doc/Text_Formatting_Information_Guide#gen


The last thing is Horizontal rules, a '*****' or '-----' or '______' or '++++++' (two or more instances without the quotes) will all be converted to horizontal rules.

That is it for plain text formatting.


I know it works for three, because that is what I use. for scene breaks.

I think it has to be on a line by itself though, which would keep em-dashes from being converted to a horizontal rule.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

I hate to suggest it, but the SOL submission engine seems to have issues with large blocks


from:

http://storiesonline.net/author/posting_guidelines.php

Chapter/Part/Story length:

Due to various technical reasons, we try to keep the length of each file served from the site below 58,000 characters (approximately 12,000 words). Any story or chapter longer than 58,000 characters will be served in pages on the site, just like in a book. The page breaks are created by a script, so you never know where your file will be divided. If you don't like the idea of page breaks in unexpected places, then divide your own text into smaller chunks.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Very often, when it divides the chapters, it will trash the text at the divide point.


I have several multi-page chapters, all have broken at paragraph breaks.

As Capt. Zapp noted, it's easily solved by reposting, but it reinforces the notion to limit chapter sizes. Readers will almost never alert you to a bad post, but will simply stop reading.


Which is why I always review new chapters on SOL myself after posting.

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

Which is why I always review new chapters on SOL myself after posting.

My problem, is that I'm too clever by half. I typically post after 12:30, to ensure my entry is the first in the next day's queue so it'll stay up for as long as possible. The problem, is that I rarely wake up in time to see the story when it first posts, only making it downstairs to my office around nine or ten. If there's an issue, I'll typically have several complaints, which again, are only a few of the readers I'm potentially losing.

Switch Blayde

@Dominions Son


Straight from the formatting guide. http://storiesonline.net/doc/Text_Formatting_Information_Guide#gen


If that's the case, a lot of my stories are trashed.

Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

I go through and beak the story up into posting chapters, and post each separate to the rest, thus the wizard can only screw up one at a time. By making sure the posting chapter is within the limits it reduces the risks of a screw up.

KimLittle

Well it appears to just be a gremlin, since it never happened before. And that chapter wasn't that long - only 4300 words: the longest chapter so far.

Would uploading a text file be any more reliable than pasting in from my editor?

graybyrd

@KimLittle

Would uploading a text file be any more reliable than pasting in from my editor?


I've never 'pasted' a file into the wizard; normally I upload, using the .md.txt markdown formatted text option. In the past I've uploaded .html files. Never had a problem, BUT having said that, be sure to follow the upload instructions. Example, be sure that text files are in UTF-8 coding, and that html files have the utf-8 code entry in the header. Stuff like that.

I'd much rather trust the upload process than rely on the 'copy/paste' buffer. Just sayin' ...

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

be sure that text files are in UTF-8 coding, and that html files have the utf-8 code entry in the header.


I thought for SOL it's supposed to be charset=windows-1252.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Can't be two. I use two hyphens "--" instead of an emdash and it doesn't convert it to a horizontal line. (At least I sure hope it's not doing that.)


I guess that line about the horizontal rules needs an update?

Over the years I've updated the formatting script to covert any combination of '-', '=', '*', '_', '@', '#', '~', '+', '•', 'x' and '-' when they're on a line of their own to a horizontal rule. They're untouched when surrounded by other text.

Also, the long text break up script works during the posting process. It seeks paragraph breaks to break the text and inserts markers in the database, not the text. So a long part/story gets marked when it gets posted.

However, once in a while, for unknown reasons, it simply doesn't do its job. As any programmer knows, a non-consistent bug is very, very hard to track and kill.

So if the text gets reposted and the break seeking script doesn't work for whatever unknown reason, the break up markers don't get updated in the database and the break point may fall somewhere other than a paragraph break.

As for the jumbled text when paragraphs are lost, well, that's another one of those bugs, and I'm starting to think it's caused by some memory corruption error on the moderator's computer. It happens very rarely and when it does happen, it's undetected by the moderator without having to do a diff on the result.

So, I always advise authors to check the resulting post on the site after the fact just in case something unexpected happened.

Replies:   docholladay
graybyrd
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


I thought for SOL it's supposed to be charset=windows-1252.


The instructions specify UTF-8, at least for the HTML head. Such as this:

[HEAD]

[meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"]

I've noticed that most all text editors offer the utf-8 encoding option. It seems to have become the 'new' web standard for multi-lingual reasons.

For that reason, everything I do in html or text is in utf-8. Sometimes I run across an old text file that's in an older code, but there were so damn many of them -- I ran Mac OS-9 & OS-X vs. Windows vs. DOS -- so various code schemes became an exercise in hair-tearing. I'm grateful for a common standard.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

I thought for SOL it's supposed to be charset=windows-1252.


No. I switched the site's engine to UTF-8 in 2001.

Plus, I've never ran windows computers, always Macs, so windows-1252 would really weird for SOL.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

No. I switched the site's engine to UTF-8 in 2001.


UTF-8 doesn't use values 128-159.
133 = horizontal ellipsis
151 = em-dash

I guess that's why when I post a story to SOL I use "--" for the em-dash and 3 dots for the ellipsis.

EDITED TO ADD: btw, I have no idea what the above really means. I got it from a site comparing the different charsets. My main problem, I think, is when I convert my Word doc to a Word txt file. The em-dash does not end up being an em-dash (I think it converts it to a hyphen). I forget what happens with the ellipsis. That's why when Word automatically converts "--" to an emdash and "..." to an ellipses I undo the replacement. So it's way before the posting step on SOL.

graybyrd
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


I guess that's why when I post a story to SOL I use "--" for the em-dash and 3 dots for the ellipsis.


What you need to do is stop using the Windows 1250 code set; it is obsolete in this multi-lingual age. Go into the settings for whatever word processor you're using, and specify output in utf-8. It's easier to join than fight. If your word app won't do that, then get one that will. LibreOffice is good. There is also a setting where you can type two hyphens or three dots, and it will auto-convert to em-dashes and ellipses. But again, you need to set the file coding to utf-8 to make sure it outputs correctly.


My main problem, I think, is when I convert my Word doc to a Word txt file. The em-dash does not end up being an em-dash (I think it converts it to a hyphen). I forget what happens with the ellipsis. That's why when Word automatically converts "--" to an emdash and "..." to an ellipses I undo the replacement. So it's way before the posting step on SOL.


Okay, now I know what your problem is: a text file (ASCII or sometimes called ANSI) does not have the codes for em dash or ellipsis. So your Word conversion from .doc to .txt converts those characters to text substitutions.

But I'd rather use an editor that can handle those codes properly, in utf-8 encoding.

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

There is also a setting where you can type two hyphens or three dots, and it will auto-convert to em-dashes and ellipses


gray,

See what I added to my previous post about this.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Switch Blayde

See what I added to my previous post about this.


We slid past each other; I was looking to confirm an answer. I've edited my last post to respond to your text conversion problem.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

I guess that's why when I post a story to SOL I use "--" for the em-dash and 3 dots for the ellipsis.


If you submit in UTF-8 and your text has em-dashes, they remain em-dashes. However, ellipses are converted to three dots as I don't like the way the ellipsis looks in most font faces.

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

So your Word conversion from .doc to .txt converts those characters to text substitutions


When I point the SOL Submission Wizard to the file to upload (via the browse), I thought it had to be a txt file.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Switch Blayde

It also takes .html

graybyrd

IT would sure save a lot of headaches to try a free download of Write Monkey or Markdown Pad for Windows. They produce clean UTF-8 copy with simple tags for formatting. Upload it to SOL as [name].md.txt -- then use that same file to produce a .doc or .rtf or .odt file for ePub or PDF product. Simples. Be rid of the Word headaches.

Joe_Bondi_Beach

@KimLittle

Would uploading a text file be any more reliable than pasting in from my editor?


Don't know if it's more reliable, but pasting the text in the box has always worked right for me.

bb

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Replies:   Dominions Son
Capt Zapp

@Switch Blayde

That's why when Word automatically converts "--" to an emdash and "..." to an ellipses I undo the replacement.


Wouldn't it be easier to go into the auto-correct settings and tell it not to replace them in the first place?

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Dominions Son

@Joe_Bondi_Beach

Don't know if it's more reliable, but pasting the text in the box has always worked right for me.


Try it with a 50k-70K character file and see how well it works.

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@graybyrd


I've never 'pasted' a file into the wizard; normally I upload, using the .md.txt markdown formatted text option. In the past I've uploaded .html files. Never had a problem, BUT having said that, be sure to follow the upload instructions. Example, be sure that text files are in UTF-8 coding, and that html files have the utf-8 code entry in the header. Stuff like that.


I almost NEVER post using UTF-8 files, and I've never had a problem. The only time I do use UTF-8 is when I've got 'special characters', most often foreign accent marks, rather than 'standard' publishing marks.

I'm not sure why my windows-1252 files post successfully, but the problem with UTF-8 is that you have to code multiple things by hard coding values (i.e. " & mdash ; "). I suspect the em-dash is a bad example, but I know with foreign lanugages, I've got to convert from text to html coding of each character (performed by copying from my 'html coding' window to my 'display window'.

@Switch

That's why when Word automatically converts "--" to an emdash and "..." to an ellipses I undo the replacement.


It's easier simply disabling the 'auto-replacement' function, as well as the 'auto-smart quotes' feature. Otherwise, you'll keep forgetting to convert files.

Switch Blayde

@Capt Zapp

Wouldn't it be easier to go into the auto-correct settings and tell it not to replace them in the first place?


I did that one time, but changed it back. Everything I do with Word, other than SOL, needs the real em-dash and ellipsis.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Dominions Son

Try it with a 50k-70K character file and see how well it works.


There is no limit to the size of the text that can be pasted in HTML specifications.

My experience has shown that most browsers can easily handle 500KB of plain text pasted into the submission wizard.

Back in the day, IE6 and netscape 4 had problems with anything longer than 60KB, but that's the past and all modern browsers can handle submitting long passages of text through a form.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Crumbly Writer

I almost NEVER post using UTF-8 files, and I've never had a problem. The only time I do use UTF-8 is when I've got 'special characters', most often foreign accent marks, rather than 'standard' publishing marks.


If you post automatically generated HTML files, as in not crafted by hand, then things should work correctly without any fuss. Each properly created HTML file has a character set declaration. The site understands those and handles the text accordingly.

I'm not sure why my windows-1252 files post successfully, but the problem with UTF-8 is that you have to code multiple things by hard coding values (i.e. " & mdash ; "). I suspect the em-dash is a bad example, but I know with foreign lanugages, I've got to convert from text to html coding of each character (performed by copying from my 'html coding' window to my 'display window'.


By manually encoding em-dahses as & mdash; you basically remove UTF-8 and you create a universal file that doesn't need any specific encoding. windows-1252 encoding has em-dashes and you shouldn't need any specific conversion.

If you're having problems and needing the manual conversion that means there is a mismatch between the actual text encoding and the html declaration at the start of the html file.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

I did that one time, but changed it back. Everything I do with Word, other than SOL, needs the real em-dash and ellipsis.


And on SOL you don't need to make these specific changes.

richardshagrin

I knew I wasn't smart enough to be an author. I read all this stuff to make sure I am not missing any jokes, but it makes my head hurt.

Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

By manually encoding em-dahses as & mdash; you basically remove UTF-8 and you create a universal file that doesn't need any specific encoding. windows-1252 encoding has em-dashes and you shouldn't need any specific conversion.

By the way, Lazeez, your comment about not being able to process 'Windows character sets', as you say, it's a standard set of characters. As a result, browsers and other tools automatically translate and displays the correct text, just as the SOL engine appears to. It essentially says, 'these are windows' tags, but here are the translations for your own computer type'.

That's why I prefer it over other character sets, because it forces the other programs to convert the characters, rather than only displaying Mac or Linux formatting.

@richardshagrin

I knew I wasn't smart enough to be an author. I read all this stuff to make sure I am not missing any jokes, but it makes my head hurt.

You can ignore most of it. Many of us here come from tech backgrounds, so we understand these things. As we've discussed elsewhere, some of us use 'publishing marks' (em-dashes, ellipses and smart quotes) to make things like interruptions and hanging pauses clearer, but SOL handles them fine either way.

Replies:   KimLittle
KimLittle
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer

You can ignore most of it. Many of us here come from tech backgrounds, so we understand these things. As we've discussed elsewhere, some of us use 'publishing marks' (em-dashes, ellipses and smart quotes) to make things like interruptions and hanging pauses clearer, but SOL handles them fine either way.


I look forward to the time when I have to deal with tags & things to produce Kindle-ready files and stuff like that. Those years of hand coding HTML & JS back in the mid-90s will come in handy! ^_^

Of course, I'll have to write something that will pass their terms of service - I don't think my current story would get past them, even if I toned it down a little and put it in as some sort of upper YA...

Ernest Bywater

@KimLittle

deal with tags & things to produce Kindle-ready files and stuff like that.


I don't worry about that, and simply import my .odt file into Calibre to produce the e-pub file for selling. It will also make the kindling files (no typo).

docholladay
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)


Also, the long text break up script works during the posting process. It seeks paragraph breaks to break the text and inserts markers in the database, not the text. So a long part/story gets marked when it gets posted. The problem seems to be more common for longer paragraphs from what I have seen. The "return" character might help. Since the can be placed after the "return" and before the next character.


Would that work better if the search process looked for a "hard return" instead of the page break. That way even in the middle of a paragraph the page break might work a little better.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@docholladay

The problem is not with how to find where to break. The problem is that the algorithm gets bypassed altogether and no new break location is sought to begin with.

Replies:   docholladay  docholladay
Crumbly Writer

@KimLittle

I look forward to the time when I have to deal with tags & things to produce Kindle-ready files and stuff like that. Those years of hand coding HTML & JS back in the mid-90s will come in handy! ^_^

In fact, Amazon doesn't really allow you to edit the finished Kindle files.

Replies:   KimLittle
docholladay

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

I knew when I posted it that it wouldn't be that simple. I will still say "Thank you" for your willingness to take on such a hard task.

KimLittle

@Crumbly Writer

In fact, Amazon doesn't really allow you to edit the finished Kindle files.


No, but I understand that producing a file that is ready for conversion can be slightly problematic.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@KimLittle

No, but I understand that producing a file that is ready for conversion can be slightly problematic.


That's why I submitted an epub to KDP. I wanted full control of the XHTML.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

That's why I submitted an epub to KDP. I wanted full control of the XHTML.

How well does that work? I'm still reluctant about doing that, since it's still "Beta only" and I'm not sure the full epub functionality is supported.

If it's reliable, and works, I may consider submitting epubs instead of WORD files.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

since it's still "Beta only"


It is? I thought it was beta on Smashwords, but not on KDP.

As far as I know, it worked fine. I didn't actually read the whole novel after publishing it (but I did skim it). I only used basic HTML, though. I wanted to use blockquote in one instance but shied away from it. I thought the simpler it was, the more chance of not having problems.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

As far as I know, it worked fine. I didn't actually read the whole novel after publishing it (but I did skim it). I only used basic HTML, though. I wanted to use blockquote in one instance but shied away from it. I thought the simpler it was, the more chance of not having problems.

In my epub files, I've been focusing on 'proportional formatting' (i.e. width="75%"). blockquotes are problematic, as I've pointed out before, because Kindle files typically reduce all blockquotes to a single space, which is virtually invisible to the casual reader.

In that case, I prefer using Style definitions, where "Indented text" is defined as being indented by "2em;" or two character widths, whichever font/font size the reader selects.

I wasn't sure whether such advanced epub features were implemented yet by Kindle, and thus hadn't even tried them yet (though I have been using the Style guide indents).

Either Amazon supports epub or they don't. Thus I'd either use the features--and learn what works--or avoid epubs altogether.

docholladay

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

The problem is not with how to find where to break. The problem is that the algorithm gets bypassed altogether and no new break location is sought to begin with.


I have been thinking and the optimal method would require the help of the writer's and/or editors. Namely how about if they insert a page-break code at the closest point before that character/word limit. That way the page-breaks might work out. Any bad page-breaks would then be the fault of the writer and their editors. Nothing like passing the blame around!

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

how about if they insert a page-break code at the closest point before that character/word limit.


a bit more than that will be needed, because I currently break up my stories into posting parts on a similar basis. However, the current Wizard process is such it will join multiple parts if submitted together and then choose it's own breaks. So I have to submit each part as a different chapter for posting on a different day to stop the auto-join activity.

richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

Auto-join activity. Sounds like an SOL story about parking and watching the submarine races.

Replies:   KimLittle
docholladay

@Ernest Bywater

auto-join


Ouch, another item I didn't know about. Well it was just an idea. Maybe someone else will come up with one or two. Who knows how many ideas it will take before the problem is solved.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

Who knows how many ideas it will take before the problem is solved.


In a way, it is solved. I manually break the story into separate parts where I want them broken, and then load each part as a separate chapter to be displayed on a different day. I little bit of work, but it works.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

a bit more than that will be needed, because I currently break up my stories into posting parts on a similar basis. However, the current Wizard process is such it will join multiple parts if submitted together and then choose it's own breaks. So I have to submit each part as a different chapter for posting on a different day to stop the auto-join activity.

Ernest, Lezeez, I've got a specific question about this functionality. I've got two incredibly short chapters which I combined into a single SOL file. How does the SOL wizard handle dual { p } commands? Does it list them both in the index, combine them, or create separate chapters. Also, should I do anything specific when I post the file (coding wise, rather than simply notifying the Admins.)?

As for why I created such short chapters (both under 1,000 words), the reason is because they deal with separate issues and it made sense creating separate chapters in book form.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

Ernest, Lezeez, I've got a specific question about this functionality.


You'll probably have to wait for Lazeez to answer this one, I don't actually use the { P } command itself. Also, I manually create the ToC I provide at the start of my stories.

However, I can tell you the system will automatically cut a file where it find a what looks like a heading that starts with the word Chapter - even if the first word of a paragraph is Chapter it will see that sentence / paragraph as a title for a new chapter and cut the file there. That's why I work hard to avoid suing the word anywhere.

KimLittle

@richardshagrin

Submarine races? Showing your vintage - my folks used to joke about that.

Crumbly Writer

@KimLittle

Submarine races? Showing your vintage - my folks used to joke about that.

It was a running punch line for decades in Chicago (around Lake Michigan--which have never had many submarines in the first place). As far as I know, it was never a popular expression anywhere else--except when it was borrowed (i.e. it's got less regional usage anywhere else).

Replies:   Dominions Son  tppm
richardshagrin

You have to be older than most automobiles on the road today to remember when front seats of automobiles were more like couches than individual seats. I am under the impression to get together today you need to get in the back seat, and some of those aren't very comfortable, either. Anyway, what possible reason could there be to find a nice place to park, fairly private, and spend time near a lake or river? Sexual activity? really? In todays autos one of you need to be a contortionist, or at least good a gymnastics. Modern automobile seating, one more reason for safe sex.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer

How does the SOL wizard handle dual { p } commands?


Are you trying to put a blank line to start a new scene?

If I remember my HTML (which I don't really), it drops consecutive < p > commands leaving only one. I think I used to fudge it with using consecutive < br > space < br > commands, or maybe the space was actually the nbsp.

But I don't use the blank line technique when reading on a screen. It works great on a printed book, but I find it gets lost on a screen. I use four asterisks centered for a scene change on SOL and my ebook.

But Lazeez will give you the correct answer.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


If I remember my HTML (which I don't really), it drops consecutive < p > commands leaving only one. I think I used to fudge it with using consecutive < br > space < br > commands, or maybe the space was actually the nbsp.


No, Lazeez finally explained a short time ago that the Admins use { p } to define chapter heads, since they use < h1 > to format Story Index pages. That's completely different than the < p > html command. Since he revealed that, I've been very studiously coding my html submission files that way to save the SOL admins. a little more time in processing my files (I figure it's the least I can do).

In this case, I'm using two, non-consequtive { p } commands to load two chapters in a single file, but I wasn't sure what effect that might have on the resulting file. I'm assuming that it leaves two very short chapters, just as if I submitted the two chapters separately (i.e. no real gain by combining the chapters).

The easiest solution in my case, it to simply combine the the two chapters, drop the extra { p } command and post it as a single chapter, but then my book and my online story chapters don't correspond. That might cause reader confusion, though it doesn't really change the story at all.

docholladay

@Crumbly Writer

The easiest solution in my case, it to simply combine the the two chapters, drop the extra { p } command and post it as a single chapter, but then my book and my online story chapters don't correspond. That might cause reader confusion, though it doesn't really change the story at all.


Or how about using a chapter title like Ernest does. The title might be a little insurance for possible variations. But its probably like most of my ideas. LOL

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

@KimLittle

Submarine races?


Don't know about in the USA, but down here in Australia I've heard of submarine races used two ways:

1. A section of the harbour or ocean where submarines regularly travel on their way to and from their base - thus it's a lane of restricted access.

2. Some sort of alcoholic drinking contest uni students got up to in the 1970s. I never did learn what it was they drank, but it was a large amount and they contested head to head to see who could drink it the fastest.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

to load two chapters in a single file


CW, when I first uploaded Flames of Life I made a mistake. The story is in three segments and is meant to look like two books by the main character and then the main story. To show that, in the first draft I had the first of his books broken into three chapters with titles starting with the word chapter. It was within the cut limit and I intended it to show as a single post. Thus I lodged the file as one post, but the system automatically cut it into three at each heading where I had the word chapter as the first word on the line. After a few emails with Lazeez, I removed the word Chapter from the headings, resubmitted, and it loaded as one big file, the way I wanted it to do it.

So if you want to load a large file and have the system break it into chapters, just have each chapter title start with something like Chapter xx - ....

Dominions Son
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


Don't know about in the USA, but down here in Australia I've heard of submarine races used two ways:


In the US is typically a euphemism for going out and making out with your girl/boy-friend. It's a similar idea to "make-out point"

Alternatively it might be used as a pickup line. Hey, do you want to go watch the submarine races?

Nuclear submarines typically don't travel on the surface much outside of harbors. So there really wouldn't be anything to see if they actually held submarine races.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

It was a running punch line for decades in Chicago (around Lake Michigan--which have never had many submarines in the first place). As far as I know, it was never a popular expression anywhere else--except when it was borrowed (i.e. it's got less regional usage anywhere else).


I've heard it in Milwaukee. I think it's something that is most popular in coastal areas around naval bases. There are a couple of naval bases on the great lakes including a Naval training base in the Chicago suburbs.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@docholladay

Or how about using a chapter title like Ernest does. The title might be a little insurance for possible variations.


@Ernest

So if you want to load a large file and have the system break it into chapters, just have each chapter title start with something like Chapter xx - ....

I tend to put more effort into coming up with detailed chapter titles. To make room for longer titles, I've done away with the traditional "Chapter Twenty-Seven: Gone to the Store". Instead, I simply list is as "27: Exploring Produce in the Vegetable Aisle".

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

I've heard it in Milwaukee. I think it's something that is most popular in coastal areas around naval bases. There are a couple of naval bases on the great lakes including a Naval training base in the Chicago suburbs.

I heard the term all the time in Chicago, despite having lived around Navel bases for decades, I've never heard the term used around military bases. In Chicago, it's an ironic title, since there are NO submarines anywhere. On the East or West coast, it's a meaningless phrase, as you'd never know if there were submarines there or not.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

On the East or West coast, it's a meaningless phrase, as you'd never know if there were submarines there or not.


That you can't see the submarines is the point. It's used as a pickup line for invite to go make out or a "make-out point" type reference.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

That you can't see the submarines is the point. It's used as a pickup line for invite to go make out or a "make-out point" type reference.

The point is, if there's any chance that there may be actual subs, the joke falls flat. It's only funny in an ironic sense, such as when you live on a lake with no access to the ocean (where subs live). Even then, the joke is only funny if the girl is so stupid they don't catch the joke. (It's pretty mean-spirited.) Typically, a group of guys will spin in on a couple new girls, and everyone twitters over how stupid they are--and no one makes out with anyone!

tppm
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Submarine races? Showing your vintage - my folks used to joke about that.

It was a running punch line for decades in Chicago (around Lake Michigan--which have never had many submarines in the first place). As far as I know, it was never a popular expression anywhere else--except when it was borrowed (i.e. it's got less regional usage anywhere else)


My brothers* would talk about going to watch the submarine races when taking a girl to lover's lane, in Los Angeles.

*I didn't start dating till I was well into my 20s.

@CW

The point is, if there's any chance that there may be actual subs, the joke falls flat. It's only funny in an ironic sense, such as when you live on a lake with no access to the ocean (where subs live). Even then, the joke is only funny if the girl is so stupid they don't catch the joke. (It's pretty mean-spirited.) Typically, a group of guys will spin in on a couple new girls, and everyone twitters over how stupid they are--and no one makes out with anyone!

IME Everyone involved know exactly what was going on. No stupidity involved, except maybe, in your example, on the part of the boys who thought they might be fooling anyone.

docholladay

As for submarine races. Maybe they are also referring to the sandwiches which bear the name. There have been all kinds of eating and drinking contests for who knows how many centuries.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Crumbly Writer

How does the SOL wizard handle dual { p } commands?


The {p} specifies a chapter header for file division. It can't be on its own, and whatever follows it is set as the part's title in the database.

Careful though, if it's present in the text, whatever is before the first one gets ignored. Chapter title is limited to 115 characters, so if the {p} tag ends up at the beginning of an actual paragraph things can be unpredictable.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

The {p} specifies a chapter header for file division. It can't be on its own, and whatever follows it is set as the part's title in the database.

Careful though, if it's present in the text, whatever is before the first one gets ignored.

OK, that's pretty clear. But what happens if I have two { p } commands corresponding to two separate chapters in one document? Will it process files correctly, or do I need to either split the file apart or subsume the chapter?

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Crumbly Writer

OK, that's pretty clear. But what happens if I have two { p } commands corresponding to two separate chapters in one document? Will it process files correctly, or do I need to either split the file apart or subsume the chapter?


The file will be divided. The {p} tag is a specific file divider tag.

Here's a little description how moderation works on the site.

You submit your story/chapter/multiple-chapter etc...

We receive whatever you attach. If it's multiple files, then the moderator receives multiple files.

When it's multiple files, the first step we do is concatenate all the files into one. The site's tools always work on one file.

If the parts are clearly marked as 'chapters', then not much need to be done to split that one file.

If the author doesn't insert the keyword 'Chapter' at the beginning, then we do it during the concatenation operation.

If there are file keywords other than 'Chapter' like 'Prologue', 'Epilogue', 'Preface', 'Introduction' etc..., then we need to use the {p} tag. If it's 'Chapter' only, then no need for the {p} tag like so:

{p}Prologue

text for prologue...
.
.
.

{p}Chapter 1: Chapter 1's title

text for chapter 1...
.
.
.
etc..

Whatever goes above the first {p} gets ignored. so if you submit something like:

Chapter 1: Optional title for chapter 1

text for chapter 1....

{p}Chapter 2: optional title for chapter 2

text for chapter 1...

Then chapter 1 won't be posted. Usually, if something like this happens, we notice it, but if there is a big number of submissions and the moderator is rushing, then we may not notice and things reach the site messed up.

We don't look for {p} tags to see if the author used them (they're not documented for author usage). So if you use them, you're responsible for the results.

By the way {p} is for 'Partition' not 'paragraph' so it's NOT the equivalent of < p >.

Replies:   Grant  Crumbly Writer
Grant

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

By the way {p} is for 'Partition' not 'paragraph' so it's NOT the equivalent of < p >.

That clarifies a lot.
I see a p in brackets of any sort & I immediately think paragraph.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Grant

I see a p in brackets of any sort


now that's called damn good aim.

Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

By the way {p} is for 'Partition' not 'paragraph' so it's NOT the equivalent of < p >.

Thanks, Lazeez. That's what I was assuming, but I wanted to be sure before I started submitting combined files.

I started using { p } when you explained the moderator tasks some time ago. I was writing a story with different sections, so you suggested I use { t } tags, and then { p } tags under those, so I've been following that protocol ever since.

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