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Porn sells (not that that is news) on Amazon (and elsewhere)

Bondi Beach

So you think you can write? You can-and you can get published on Amazon with five stars (admittedly only two reviews, perhaps from the author's parents, who knows?). The below is from Crowded By Three, by Tanya Carr.
(http://www.amazon.com/EROTICA-STRETCHED-Multiple-Unprotected-Stretching-ebook/dp/B00U85ADO0/ref=la_B00U6ZDQZA_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1446694655&sr=1-12)

BEGIN QUOTE
The skinny one positioned himself behind me and slowly penetrated me inch by inch with his enormous cock forcing right down to the very back of my pussy with one slow stretching penetration. My mouth gasped wide open. And I squirmed,
"Oh Fuck!"
He was stretching me even farther than Anthony did before. My pussy clasped a tight ring hard around the thick meat of his cock in total surprise and my juice trickled out the bottom of my slit, snaking its way down to my asshole, wetting it and I felt the temperature of my juice getting cooler at my ass where it settled. Fuck his cock felt so good and thick and powerful inside me. My pussy throbbed hard as he began to pull out and shove himself in. It felt even better than the one I'd had earlier. I stifled a moan as he started fucking me and the man in front of me slid his member down my throat.
I was in orgasm-heaven.
I was so absorbed by the feeling of having a dick in my mouth and one expanding my pussy that I almost forgot about the third guy until I felt his hand awkwardly feeling around my vagina, searching.
END QUOTE

Chris Podhola

@Bondi Beach

Lol. Yeah...

This is a good example as to why, if you can really write, putting your efforts into adult materials is a very wise choice. If you can write, it isn't very difficult to write better than this and, if you can actually write, you will make a better return and develop a larger audience than this author.

When you have a little bit of talent, the readers who gobble up adult materials will flock to authors who demonstrate a higher skill level than this.

Bravo for pointing this out, Bondi.

awnlee jawking

@Bondi Beach

I somehow suspect this author won't be picked up by a commercial publisher as E L James was.

AJ

Replies:   Chris Podhola  Wheezer
Chris Podhola

@awnlee jawking

I somehow suspect this author won't be picked up by a commercial publisher as E L James was.


Lol. Well, maybe someday, but he/she has a very, very long way to go.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Wheezer

@awnlee jawking

Hey, don't rag on the author so bad. That's pretty good prose, considered it was typed one-handed; and the lighting is usually pretty poor in the basement...

Chris Podhola

@Wheezer

Hey, don't rag on the author so bad. That's pretty good prose, considered it was typed one-handed; and the lighting is usually pretty poor in the basement...


Good point. Sometimes I get a little carried away in my judgments, but you are right. This author she be hailed and given the honored 'Written in a dark basement' award.

sejintenej

@Wheezer

Hey, don't rag on the author so bad. That's pretty good prose, considered it was typed one-handed; and the lighting is usually pretty poor in the basement...

8.9 for humor from the Swedish judge.
Lazeez; we need a thumbs up symbol for the best retorts

sejintenej

More seriously you don't need to be a good writer to sell books; just look at Mills and Boon in the UK - same model, different names and thousands sold. Only problems seems to be "will your fingers and keyboard stand the strain"? You don't even need to refer to bodily parts, tabs and slots etc. (but its not my style)

awnlee jawking

@Wheezer

If the story were available to read for free, say here on SOL, I'd feel a responsibility to be supportive or at least keep quiet. But the author is requiring payment for a story which has never been near a decent proofreader, let alone editor.

AJ

Replies:   Chris Podhola
Chris Podhola

@awnlee jawking

Wait? You mean that was never proofread or edited?

Go figure.

He he he

Bondi Beach

@Chris Podhola

I somehow suspect this author won't be picked up by a commercial publisher as E L James was.

Lol. Well, maybe someday, but he/she has a very, very long way to go.


That she apparently has 39 titles on Amazon indicates how deep and wide the flood on the erotica market is. Also, given her laser focus, there's apparently a market for *everything.*

So I suppose it works both ways: the average quality is so low it shouldn't be too hard to beat, but with so much out there it's going to take some focused marketing to bring your masterpiece to the attention of readers.

bb

Replies:   Chris Podhola
Chris Podhola

@Bondi Beach

If you are going back to your original point that, "Porn sells" the only thing I can say to that is...

Duh. Of course it does. More people look at porn on the internet every day than go to Amazon.

And as long as porn readers refrain from demanding high quality prose, there will always be those who crank out substandard materials. That doesn't change the fact that if you can write with some talent and if you have the patience and determination to produce higher quality stuff, that you have an advantage.

Do you need a little skill as a marketer?

Again ... duh!

Writing is sitting down in a quiet place and putting your thoughts to paper. It is pouring your soul onto paper. Writing is cutting a slit into your guts and reaching inside to see what's inside. It is exposing your own wounds and then letting them heal again.

Publishing is a business. If you want to complain that writers who write 'porn' make more than you, I would suggest that the mistake is yours and not the writer whom you are complaining about. Yes. It is easier to break into the porn market than it is other genres. The reason is that the porn market is more focused and the keywords are easier (my opinion). But the other genres offer a larger readership. So, if you can find a way to get noticed as a sci fi writer, or a fantasy writer, or a mystery writer, or even a horror writer, you will have a larger ceiling than what most porn authors have.

If you want to succeed as a writer, your best bet is to quit looking for reasons that you are not where you want to be and start looking for examples that can help you get to where you want to go. Envying someone else's success over yours will never benefit you.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
demonmaster62
Updated:

@Bondi Beach

Not trying to be stupid here, but as one that is interested in self publishing on Amazon, I've read on here several authors who say that the explicit sex needs to be toned way down. That quote seems rather explicit to me. What am I missing here?

Chris Podhola

@demonmaster62

Not trying to be stupid here, but as one that is interested in self publishing on Amazon, I've read on here several authors who say that the explicit sex needs to be toned way down. That quote seems rather explicit to me. What am I missing here?


Don't know who told you that, but it is a narrow viewpoint. There are different classes of erotica. Yes. There are subclasses or cultures that are toned down, but there are also very raunchy classes where the only limitations that Amazon has are age and 'abuse'. (They don't like it if women are being flat out abused in the erotica). Other than that, feel free to be as explicit as you want. Be raunchy if that's what you are into writing. It will sell just fine as long as you market it properly and get your keywords right.

Replies:   demonmaster62
demonmaster62

@Chris Podhola

Thank you.

Replies:   Chris Podhola
Chris Podhola

@demonmaster62

Thank you.


No problem.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@demonmaster62


Not trying to be stupid here, but as one that is interested in self publishing on Amazon, I've read on here several authors who say that the explicit sex needs to be toned way down. That quote seems rather explicit to me. What am I missing here?


Who told you that? My novel has very explicit and graphic sex and it's available on Amazon.

Now if I didn't categorize it as erotica, Amazon would probably delete it.

Also, you can't have the no-nos, such as underage sex, incest, and bestiality.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

@demonmaster62

Not trying to be stupid here, but as one that is interested in self publishing on Amazon, I've read on here several authors who say that the explicit sex needs to be toned way down.


Not sure if it applies to Amazon at all, but I have seen a number of references where people categorise the differences between romance, erotica, and porn as being how graphic it is. Some have said romance literature isn't graphic, but erotica is, and porn is very graphic. I've seen those discussion and points made on a few forums, but can't remember where, mainly because I didn't care at the time. Maybe that's the talk you're thinking of.

Bondi Beach

@Chris Podhola

Envying someone else's success over yours will never benefit you.


Hmm. I didn't feel envy in reading her, more like astonishment that such crap sells (if it does). And then figuring out a strategy-some day, I'm not in a rush-to reach more readers.

There's no percentage in envy, and I know I'm not the only one who's read something and said, "Hell, I can write better than that."

Of course, the only response to that is, "So what? Do it." And I couldn't agree more.

bb

Ernest Bywater

@Bondi Beach

"So what? Do it." And I couldn't agree more.


Many do, but can get the appropriate media attention to garner the high sales levels.

Joe_Bondi_Beach

@demonmaster62

That quote seems rather explicit to me. What am I missing here?


It's not how explicit you are, it's how well you are explicit. (That's a terrible sentence.) Anyway, it's doing it well that counts. And I wouldn't buy the "more explicit the better" idea. It's true that even Romance novels have gotten more explicit-read Harlequin's submission guidelines for their "Spice" or "Nocturne" series-but it's doing explicit well that counts.

I didn't have any problem with her subject matter, although it's not my cup of, er, tea, but she didn't do it very well. That's what caught my eye.

bb

Chris Podhola

@Bondi Beach

such crap sells


This is can be processed by your mind as envy. You have to be very careful about which direction this thought process spins. Chances are, if you weren't envious, you wouldn't care either way, so you have to be careful about letting this seed of thought grow in your mind.

(if it does)


It does. I looked her up. A few of her books are ranked quite well. This should not be discouraging, but encouraging to you. You don't have to be a literary genius to succeed. (But again, wasting your mental, emotional and spiritual energy worrying about the success others have over you, is negative energy that will never benefit you).


"Hell, I can write better than that."


This part is positive energy and I encourage you to focus in on this. Thinking that you can do something better can be fuel to your fire. This attitude is what inspired me to devote more energy into writing.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach
Updated:

@Chris Podhola


such crap sells

This is can be processed by your mind as envy. You have to be very careful about which direction this thought process spins. Chances are, if you weren't envious, you wouldn't care either way, so you have to be careful about letting this seed of thought grow in your mind.

(if it does)

It does. I looked her up. A few of her books are ranked quite well. This should not be discouraging, but encouraging to you. You don't have to be a literary genius to succeed. (But again, wasting your mental, emotional and spiritual energy worrying about the success others have over you, is negative energy that will never benefit you).

"Hell, I can write better than that."

This part is positive energy and I encourage you to focus in on this. Thinking that you can do something better can be fuel to your fire. This attitude is what inspired me to devote more energy into writing.


Hmm. I'm pretty sure we're on different paths here.

I'd be careful of equating taking note with envy. After all, I'd probably take note of a car wreck, without feeling envy. And, yes, envy is not productive, unless your goal is frustration and anger and high blood pressure.

That said, I thought I was making a pretty commonplace observation, that crap sells. (In my book, porn is bad writing, which means it's crap. It's not the subject matter: I bet rache could have created something pretty neat out of one pussy and three huge dicks. She said she wrote porn, but I think we all know she didn't.)

And I made the point that if one says, "I can write better than that," it's an empty boast, unless one puts finger to keyboard (yadda yadda) and does it. Whether the result is better is an open question, to be determined later.

So why bring up the whole thing, anyway? Because everyone talks about how bad "Fifty Shades" is, but I never read it. I was looking around to see who puts the underage disclaimer-along the lines of "No character is under eighteen years of age"-right up front, and among the likely candidates I ran across that one, and I thought it was amusing (read: bad) enough to post on the group.

Cheers,

bb

Chris Podhola

@Bondi Beach

After all, I'd probably take note of a car wreck, without feeling envy


Hmm... Curious. So you'd take note of a car accident and then what? Run home and post images of it on facebook, or talk about it on a forum?

Look, I get it. You've made yourself pretty clear and to me, it's no skin off my back. You said yourself that you think "porn is bad writing, which means it's crap," and when you see that someone is writing it and making money off it, it bugs you. No problem, man. Just have the balls to own it. I won't judge you. I mean, personally, I can't stand mushy romance. The difference is that you won't find me posting bad examples of it to all my peers, trying to make an example of it.

Replies:   Joe_Bondi_Beach
Grant

@Bondi Beach

I bet rache could have created something pretty neat out of one pussy and three huge dicks. She said she wrote porn, but I think we all know she didn't.


Now there was an Excellent writer.
I've read a lot of her work, put out under various names.
Even the genres that I normally avoid or just don't like I often read as even though it was often graphic (or even extremely graphic), her plots were interesting & the stories dragged you in, even if it wasn't your preferred reading. Add to that she had a wide vocabulary & typos & misspellings or wrong words used were pretty much non-existent.

Joe_Bondi_Beach

@Chris Podhola

Just have the balls to own it.


Does the psychological term "projection" have any meaning for you? I'll say adios now, and let you go your own way, and me and my huevos will go ours.

Replies:   Chris Podhola
Chris Podhola
Updated:

@Joe_Bondi_Beach


Does the psychological term "projection" have any meaning for you? I'll say adios now, and let you go your own way, and me and my huevos will go ours.


Look. What you tried to do was slick, but it was bullshit. If you want to build yourself up by tearing other people down, fine. But when you do, I'm going to call you out on it. If accusing me of 'projecting' makes you feel better, go for it.

awnlee jawking

@Bondi Beach

Not everyone talks about how bad "Fifty Shades" is. I haven't read the whole book but I've read significant extracts and I was impressed with how good they were. I don't find it a surprise that a commercial published snapped it up.

AJ

Replies:   Chris Podhola
Chris Podhola

@awnlee jawking

Not everyone talks about how bad "Fifty Shades" is. I haven't read the whole book but I've read significant extracts and I was impressed with how good they were. I don't find it a surprise that a commercial published snapped it up.


The writing in it isn't too bad (pretty good, actually) but it does have its flaws. Quite a bit of 'eye rolling' going on (too repetitively) and I found it a little predictable in places, but I agree with the premise you bring up, that it was written well enough to be picked up by publishers for sure. Seems like a half a billion women agree as well. lol

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

Who told you that? My novel has very explicit and graphic sex and it's available on Amazon.

Part of the issue is Amazon's response. It doesn't take anything to ban a book. A single complaint, and Amazon will ban a book, without even reviewing it. There's also no review process if you think you've been unfairly targeted. Thus many genres (i.e. gay sex stories) often get banned because of complaints by people with no intention of actually purchasing the books.

On the other hand, in most cases, all you have to do is resubmit it. However, if the book generates a second complaint, you'll be permanently banned on Amazon (in which case you create a new email and pseudonym).

There's no percentage in envy, and I know I'm not the only one who's read something and said, "Hell, I can write better than that."

Of course, the only response to that is, "So what? Do it." And I couldn't agree more.

Bondi, I'd guess that badly written books have produced more authors than all the universities teaching English! Most authors here started because they read one story in particular that pushed them into trying one themselves. Good books don't inspire that response. If something is decent, there's no sense trying to do better.

Look, I get it. You've made yourself pretty clear and to me, it's no skin off my back. You said yourself that you think "porn is bad writing, which means it's crap," and when you see that someone is writing it and making money off it, it bugs you. No problem, man.

Chris, I think this is definitional. I'm pretty sure that Bondi was defining "porn" as "badly written" rather than "involving more graphic descriptions of sex". Many of us consider anything badly written as being porn (i.e. "gun porn", "romantic porn", "space porn").

Many people define "porn" as being badly written, while erotica is defined as "decently written", though you'll never find those definitions in any dictionary.

Replies:   Chris Podhola
Chris Podhola
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


I think this is definitional. I'm pretty sure that Bondi was defining "porn" as "badly written" rather than "involving more graphic descriptions of sex". Many of us consider anything badly written as being porn (i.e. "gun porn", "romantic porn", "space porn").

Many people define "porn" as being badly written, while erotica is defined as "decently written", though you'll never find those definitions in any dictionary.


I won't argue that the piece he referred to was far from a masterpiece. I guess it was his condescending attitude in the opening post that rubbed me the wrong way. I tried to spin it around in my response, but I don't like it when any group is attacked, so when it turned from criticizing that particular piece, to attacking the genre (which was the way I perceived that) I went nuclear.

Historically, porn has been written with less care and finesse than other genres. Erotica hasn't faired much better, but (in my opinion) if you come out ranting against it (especially if you do so with condescension), I can't help but assume that you are jealous of materials that are written with less quality, but are selling better than something you (may or may not have) written.

Just my two cents, though.

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