Forum: Author Hangout

I think Richard wins the prize.

As far as I can tell, both 'complaisance' and 'compliance' have the same Latin root, but the snob word came via French.

Maybe Australians don't know the term because they never need it.

Ich gebe zu, mein Meister

"complainant"

Surely you meant "compliant" there?

often judgmental term implying they deserve whatever they get

That makes sense. If a dialect has two very similar words with the same meaning then some nuance between will develop.

To me, compliant always suggested I was doing what the boss wanted me to do, while complaisant meant I was going along to get along, probably with an acquaintance.

The word "complaisant" is actually part of my regular vernacular. You hear it most often, in the U.S.

The thing that surprised me about this one was it's rare that words shift to add extra sounds.
The only one I recall is 'compliance' which seems to come naturally from 'comply'.
I understood what had happened when I learned the equivalent word in French had an 's' sound.
The same root word had arrived in English twice via different routes. That's not particularly unusual.

it's rare that words shift to add extra sounds
No it's not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epenthesis

That paper, which I could not stomach reading in detail, included those types of changes as words shifted from one language to another.
I only meant shifts in words over time in the same language. My guess is still that those shifts tend not to add extra sounds to words. But I sincerely do not care.

I am going to grant you the benefit of the doubt for the tone of your last post.

1. I did not look at what I was clicking on when I went to the link you provided. The format was completely unfamiliar to me. I did not know it was a Wiki article.

2. I thought I had made my meaning clear when it said it was rare for sounds to be added into words. I only ever meant to single, isolated words within a language. That is what the example in the OP would have been if the meaning had not arrived twice in English via different routes.

I did not mean my suggestion to include either (a) during the process of a new word entering a language, (b) as a consequence of general change across a language in the pronunciation of some class of sounds, or (c) mispronunciations by a few speakers which never become accepted alternative spellings.

After reading that link carefully, almost 3,000 words long, I could only find four instances of isolated words changing to a new form with an extra sound that did not result from the conditions I just listed -- across all languages which use the Roman alphabet. Those were:
In Modern English: 'amongst' and a few other words with -st endings
In Modern English: 'thunder' contains a 'd' not present in the Old English 'thunor'
In Modern Greek: 'ambrotos' contains a 'b' not present in the Proto-Greek 'amrotos'
In Dutch: the pronunciation of the city name 'Delft' is /DEL-lift/

I think it is accurate to claim that it is extremely rare that extra sounds are added to words which already exist in languages.

I started reading at the beginning of the text. I did not look at Wikipedia emblazoned across the top.
I always open Wiki at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page. I have never seen anything with the same format as the link you provided.
Please! I'm feeling cranky about other things today. You do not seem to me like your normal self today. Just for today, will you leave me alone unless you have something you feel a need to direct at me?
Good night.

The word "complaisant" is actually part of my regular vernacular. You hear it most often, in the U.S., at least, when the government does something that someone feels they should be upset about, and yet the public at large doesn't respond.

Here in Australia the word used is "complacent."

Here in Australia the word used is "complacent."

I disagree with both you and Grant about the meaning of "complacent". I use both that and "compliant" with totally different meanings.

The OALD definitions are:

complacent (usually disapproving) too satisfied with yourself or with a situation, so that you do not feel that any change is necessary; showing or feeling complacency

compliant (usually disapproving) too willing to agree with other people or to obey rules

complaisant (old-fashioned) ready to accept other people's actions and opinions and to do what other people want

The meaning of "complacent" is quite different to the other two. It means too willing to accept a situation or their own actions. The other two mean too willing to accept what somebody else does or wants.

Their definitions suggest the nuance differentiating the latter two is that "compliant" is 'usually disapproving'.

Merriam-Webster:

The homophones complaisant and complacent are often confused - and no wonder. Not only do they look and sound alike, but they also both derive ultimately from Latin complacēre, meaning "to please greatly." Complacent usually means "self-satisfied" or "unconcerned," but it also shares with complaisant the sense of "marked by an inclination to please or oblige." This sense of complacent is an old one, but that hasn't kept language critics from labeling it as an error - and on the whole, modern writers do prefer complaisant for this meaning. Conversely, complaisant is sometimes mistakenly used in contexts such as "complaisant about injustices," where complacent, with its sense of "marked by self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies," should go. One aid is to remember that with the preposition "about," you probably want complacent.

Merriam-Webster: The homophones complaisant and complacent

Their explanation would have been what I thought - if 'complaisant' was replaced by 'compliant' throughout.
Yesterday I would have thought 'complaisant' was not even a valid word. I would use 'compliant' instead whenever others use it.
It does appear to be an American usage. The OALD describes it as 'old-fashioned'. I think that is correct for BrE, but it is still being used in AmE.

You haven't resorted to ngrams yet ;)

No. That would not prove I don't recall ever hearing the word before, and the word 'compliant' would have been used instead for that meaning.

froward

"Definition of froward
1 : habitually disposed to disobedience and opposition
2 archaic : adverse"

If Banadin says so, He must be right, except with a lie or two. Disobedience and opposition are normal on this againstum.

Complexifenestrated: having Windows 10.

LOL. After that one, I forgive you for all the harassment you've been giving me above. :-)

...do they really not teach about the Defenestration of Prague in the schools anymore?

How do you throw a city out of a window? :)

Macs? Linux?

AJ has already made a joke about Windows. He his joke worked. Yours fails because Macs and Linux are not "really awful".

2. informal
the action of dismissing someone from a position of power or authority.
"that victory resulted in Churchill's own defenestration by the war-weary British electorate"

Ahh! THAT'S where I had heard it before. :)
My sense is in BrE it is used to describe dire consequences for politicians when for non-politicians you might prefer a figurative use of 'castrated'.

The best I could do is from a dictionary compiled by a Canadian professor working in Wayne State U, Detroit called Dr Steven Chrisomalis

Complaisant wishing to please others; obliging

It's a shame there isn't a similar $100 word for the very similar 'throwing someone under a bus'

It's not a $100 word but an older expression in America has recently acquired that precise meaning: Appointment as a Cabinet Secretary.