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Weapons in films

shinerdrinker

This isn't very important but I was working on an idea for another story and I needed to figure out what weapon was about to be used. I'm not a gun guy. SO I can't really tell them apart. But I do know what I think is cool and I knew what "cool" looking weapon I wanted to use in the story by the good guys, but didn't know what they were called.

I found the Internet Movie Firearms Database. It's just like the more famous IMDB but the IMFDB tells you what weapons were used in what movie. Some entries features clips of the movie with said weapon being used.

So just a little helpful tool for us writers with little or no experience in weaponry. I find it is always nice to find another tool to make the stories here in SOL as realistic as possible. I mean besides the end of the world or time travel or alien invasion stuff normally happening.

www.imfdb.org

awnlee jawking

@shinerdrinker

www.imfdb.org


Thanks, that's worth knowing.

AJ

Switch Blayde

@shinerdrinker

I found the Internet Movie Firearms Database.


I wish I had known that when I started writing my latest novel.

Crumbly Writer

That makes sense, since movies are notorious for their 'fact based' use of weapons in films. 'D

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@Crumbly Writer

movies are notorious for their 'fact based' use of weapons in films.

Oh? And here I was convinced that the technology of magically reloading handguns had been perfected decades ago.

Replies:   Dominions Son
oyster50

As an Army veteran - tank commander, drill sergeant, former competitive rifle shooter, and long time firearms enthusiast, it's hard for me to watch many movies with firearms because of rife inaccuracy in presenting the capabilities of bot shooter and weapon.

Aside from the bottomless ammo capacity, and they're getting better about that one, there's the 'cover versus concealment' thing, where they guy steps back around the corner of an interior wall. the wall is immediately splattered by the foe's bullets, and he's untouched. Consider that one of the big topics of home defense weaponry is 'overpenetration' and knowing the construction of non-load-bearing walls - it's bullshit.

the rest of the list it too long. It's the movies, it's make-believe, and all too many movie shooters exhibit greater shooting skills than superheroes exhibit superpowers.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@oyster50


It's the movies, it's make-believe,


The one that gets me is when someone is in front of a glass window and shot from behind. The glass is splattered with blood — but where does the bullet go? Not through the window. It happens at the end of "Road to Perdition" when Tom Hanks is shot from behind while gazing out the window.

Replies:   helmut_meukel
Dominions Son

@Ross at Play

And here I was convinced that the technology of magically reloading handguns had been perfected decades ago.


What's magical about characters re-loading their guns when off camera?

Replies:   AmigaClone
AmigaClone

@Dominions Son

@Ross at Play

And here I was convinced that the technology of magically reloading handguns had been perfected decades ago.


What's magical about characters re-loading their guns when off camera?


The issue is that sometimes there is no "off camera" time available for a reload.

Granted, my pet peeve is for a character to make a stealth approach, and only "check to see if his weapon is loaded" after making that approach.

Replies:   Dominions Son
helmut_meukel

@Switch Blayde

The one that gets me is when someone is in front of a glass window and shot from behind. The glass is splattered with blood — but where does the bullet go? Not through the window.

That depends on the type of bullet used. Probable split up into tiny segments, most of them remaining in the body, those leaving the body through the large exit hole without enough energy to penetrate the windowpane.

If the glass is splattered with blood the bullet must have created an exit hole. My favourite explanation would else be the bullet hadn't enough energy to go through and remained in the body.

HM.

Replies:   sejintenej
Dominions Son

@AmigaClone

The issue is that sometimes there is no "off camera" time available for a reload.


That's very rare. Most Hollywood shootouts include repeated close ups of each side, as well as bullet impacts. Championship level competition shooters have been timed with semi-auto pistols, going through 40 rounds or more, (4 magazines) in under a minute. It takes only seconds for each reload.

shinerdrinker

I found the site by accident. I was trying to decide to use either a AR-15 or what I later decided on was a Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW. Now does one shoot better than the other, I have no idea. As I've said before, I have never fired a weapon in my life.

But in my mind's eye I can see the heroes of the story using the Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW with a red dot sight. It was used in the Expendables by Jason Statham during an important fight scene in the movie. But thinking about that movie got me thinking about a way to work in Terry Crews' AA-12 with 32 round drum magazine. When he uses that in a cave, it makes a lil' bit o' noise.

But then again, I know nothing about guns but I do know what I think is cool.

Dominions Son

@shinerdrinker

Now does one shoot better than the other, I have no idea.


Generally speaking, if you want precision shooting, the longer the barrel the better, until it gets long enough to be difficult to handle properly.

A proper AR-15 is a full scale rifle, though it comes in a shorter barreled carbine. Even an AR carbine would have a longer barrel then an MP5. The MP5K-PDW is a semi-auto version of what was originally designed as a sub-machine gun (the original MP5) for military use.

A sub-machine gun generally uses pistol rather than rifle ammo. The classic American Thompson sub-machine gun fires .45 ACP(Automatic Colt Pistol).

The conditions under which they will be used matter.

At long range, the AR-15 or a sniper rifle would be better to reach out and touch someone.

In close quarter combat, over-penetration can become a problem with rifle ammo, it's easier to maneuver with a shorter weapon, and the loss of long range precision from a short barrel doesn't matter much, and you get less blow through with pistol ammo.

Ernest Bywater

@shinerdrinker

I found the site by accident. I was trying to decide to use either a AR-15 or what I later decided on was a Heckler & Koch MP5K-PDW


Ar 15 is a rifle for medium to long range shooting, but not extreme range shooting like you need s sniper rifle for. An MP5 is for shirt to medium range, and the exact situation you will change the model you would want..

The AA 12 shotgun is close range and can be devastating when loaded right. The sad thing is most people in the US think the only shot to use in a shotgun is 00 or 0 buck. They have one hell of a hit when they hit, but it's also possible to have a clean miss at anything beyond several yard, while if you go with a smaller shot you have less actual impact per hit, but you get more hits and put out a bigger wall of lead.

Replies:   Jim S
awnlee jawking

@oyster50

They're showing what's entertaining, not what's accurate. That's not a bad mantra to apply to fiction writing too. For example, an accurate police procedural would be mind-numbingly boring.

AJ

Jim S

@Ernest Bywater

Ar 15 is a rifle for medium to long range shooting, but not extreme range shooting like you need s sniper rifle for. An MP5 is for shirt to medium range, and the exact situation you will change the model you would want..

The automatic weapon was first designed for the close in work of trench warfare in WWI. It worked well in the close in house-to-house combats of WWII also. As well as today. The short barrel makes it more maneuverable in close quarters.

And sawed off 12 gauges loaded with 00 are horrendous weapons at short range. They found use in clearing trenches in WWI. And as urban warfare weapons of today.

Shinerdrinker, if you're going for accuracy, investigate the weapons of choice for the Special Forces branches of the military. A lot of their work is short range and their weaponry reflects this.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Jim S

And sawed off 12 gauges loaded with 00 are horrendous weapons at short range.


True, as short range, as in very short - which is what I said earlier. The issue is the inaccuracy and the less balls the more energy per ball, but the bigger gaps in the pattern. Most military and police use of shotguns are intended for hard hit in the 4 to 6 yard range; after that you start to have issues about getting a hit - it's possible, but not a sure thing the closer range is.

StarFleet Carl

@oyster50

Consider that one of the big topics of home defense weaponry is 'overpenetration' and knowing the construction of non-load-bearing walls - it's bullshit.


Thus my AR is 5.56, NOT .223 ... You want to hide behind that sheetrock wall or that hollowcore door? NOT a problem.

What I like is that people think that 5.56 is the same as .223.

Oh, and I was NBC (now known as CBRN for some stupid reason).

Replies:   Dominions Son  Wheezer
Dominions Son

@StarFleet Carl

What I like is that people think that 5.56 is the same as .223.


You are correct, it's actually even smaller.

Rifle caliber refers to bore diameter. The standard NATO round used by the AR15 is 5.56mm US caliber in .xxx is in inches. 5.56mm = .219 inches

Replies:   Jim S
Argon

Okay, off topic, but a little related: does anybody here know the maker and model of the car Jodie Foster drove in The Accused? Yes, I mean SXY-SADIE. I need the info for a story in development, and I cannot find any footage showing the car, except for my old VHS tape for which I have no player anymore.

Replies:   Capt. Zapp
Capt. Zapp

@Argon

the maker and model of the car Jodie Foster drove in The Accused? Yes, I mean SXY-SADIE.


You can see it is a Chevy Camaro in this clip at about 1:50. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8NklFXAd4

Jim S

@Dominions Son

Rifle caliber refers to bore diameter. The standard NATO round used by the AR15 is 5.56mm US caliber in .xxx is in inches. 5.56mm = .219 inches


This is sort of reminiscent of a television cigarette ad (remember those ????) that pushed the fact that their cigarette was 101 mm long. At the time, a lot of cigarette companies were pushing 100 mm cigarettes. The big push line reinforced with a jingle was ".....a silly millimeter longer....."

Kind of fits here too.

Wheezer

@StarFleet Carl

What I like is that people think that 5.56 is the same as .223.


5.56mm is the NATO designation for the mil-spec round.
.223 is the civilian round developed by Remington.
External dimensions are identical.
The 5.56mm may exhibit higher chamber pressures than .223 Rem. when fired, but not necessarily so, leading some to say that 5.56mm ammo should not be fired in a rifle chambered for .223 Remington. For practical purposes, this is a myth.
The major difference is that 5.56mm NATO ammo will always be full metal jacket, while .223 Rem. may be FMJ, hollow point or soft point. A minor difference is that the NATO round will have a crimped & sealed primer, making it a bit of a PITA to reload.

I fired thousands of rounds of both through my AR-15's: Surplus NATO, civilian .223 Rem. and my own reloads. Whatever was cheapest and whatever I had on hand.

Replies:   oyster50
sejintenej

@helmut_meukel

If the glass is splattered with blood the bullet must have created an exit hole. My favourite explanation would else be the bullet hadn't enough energy to go through and remained in the body.

armoured glass p e r h a p s but is highly unlikely.

After Cert A (army basic training) and competition shooting I agree that much of it is nonsense. You would not get a sniper simply drop to the ground and get a head or heart shot on a target at 1000 yards. He would take time to check range, light, wind and movements of the target waiting for that optimum moment. A far more realistic scenario is in Florida Friends when Chuck Johnson waits two days to get a drug boss and on another occasion overnight to stop a bomb carrying vehicle

oyster50

@Wheezer

What Wheezer said.

As one of those 'official' gun nuts (over twenty in my collection, ranging from 1860-something to modern day) I own several of the 'AR-15' family. My ammo stash features both civvy .223 and mil-spec 5.56 and none of my weapons can tell the difference, much the same as my arms chambered for 7.62X51mm NATO, will easily digest .308 Winchester.

There ARE differences, but the average gun and gunner won't be able to tell them in use.

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer

@oyster50

none of my weapons can tell the difference, much the same as my arms chambered for 7.62X51mm NATO, will easily digest .308 Winchester.

Yep. I shoot a mix of NATO rounds and .308 Win. through my Century Arms CETMI 7.62x51.

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob

@Wheezer

As a reader uninterested in the details of firearms, I prefer well-written descriptions: "she had a little 5-inch single-shot pistol taped to her forearm under her sleeve" (if such a thing exists). Or "he toted a gun big enough to blow a 4-inch hole in your belly." I would recognize a BB gun, a .22 rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun. Get beyond that and I'm simply not going to go look up what it means if you say "I shoot a mix of NATO rounds and .308 Win. through my Century Arms CETMI 7.62x51." To me, that means the author was more interested in making me believe he is an expert than he is in telling me a story I understand. On the other hand, I acknowledge that I may be the only person in the world who feels that way.

Dominions Son

@PotomacBob

I prefer well-written descriptions: "she had a little 5-inch single-shot pistol taped to her forearm under her sleeve" (if such a thing exists).


There are some very small pistols out there that are neither semi-auto or revolvers, for concealed carry. Typically, however, they are two shot over/under double barrel Derringer type guns.

https://bondarms.com/bond-arms-handguns/girl-mini/

robberhands

@PotomacBob

On the other hand, I acknowledge that I may be the only person in the world who feels that way.

No, you're not. We are two at least and there might be even more.

Dominions Son
Updated:

@robberhands


We are two at least and there might be even more.


And then there are gun enthusiasts who want their gun porn. They will hate you if you get even the smallest detail wrong.

There's room for stories written for both audiences.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Dominions Son

And then there are gun enthusiasts who want their gun porn.

We need a 'Gun Porn' tag!

Ernest Bywater

@robberhands

We need a 'Gun Porn' tag!


then a 5,000 word definition of it you do, because no 2 people agree on where the line about weapons is.

Replies:   robberhands  sejintenej
robberhands

@Ernest Bywater

then a 5,000 word definition of it you do, because no 2 people agree on where the line about weapons is.

Shrugs, many tags are like that. Tags are warning as well as advertisement; a 'Gun Porn' tag would be as well.

sejintenej

@Ernest Bywater

Gun porn

then a 5,000 word definition of it you do,

The imagination boggeleth how you would do porn with a gun. "He stuck the barrel of his Lee Enfield ..... and the foresight ...."

Ross at Play
Updated:

@robberhands

We are two at least

#MeThree

I agree on the desirability of a tag I could read as "gun porn". But for said perps to use it, it might need to be something like "gun aficionado". I can't think of the right word, but you'll know what I'm trying to say.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Ross at Play

something like "gun afficionado"

Gun nut.

Replies:   AmigaClone
Ernest Bywater

@robberhands

We need a 'Gun Porn' tag!


Of course that will have to be followed by a 'car porn' tag and a 'food porn' tag to cover the situations where authors go off in great detail about the cars and the food they have in the story. Then you have to get down to the heavy discussions about which horse or dog is better for what situation. I really don't think we need a such tags at all.

Sure, some people go into a lot of detail about the guns in the story, and some don't, but the same is true of everything being mentioned in a story.

awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

I really don't think we need a such tags at all.


Weren't you the instigator of the farm porn tag? ;)

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
robberhands
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

Sure, some people go into a lot of detail about the guns in the story, and some don't, but the same is true of everything being mentioned in a story.

I'd welcome any tag, warning of 'boring long descriptions'. However, I doubt any author, AJ aside, would willingly apply such a tag to code their story. Despite the fact the discussion about a 'Gun Porn' tag started as a joke, I think such a code wouldn't be any less useful than many of the codes we do have now.

awnlee jawking

@robberhands

However, I doubt any author, AJ aside, would willingly apply such a tag to code their story.


Yay for infodumps!

AJ

AmigaClone

@richardshagrin

Gun nut.


Those come in several varieties. The two most extreme are as follows:

Type 1: believes that they should be allowed to own any and all weapons that can be termed "gun".

Type 2: No one (besides a possible exception of their security personnel) is to be allowed to touch or even see any "gun".

Replies:   richardshagrin
Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

Weren't you the instigator of the farm porn tag? ;)


Close. I asked for a tag about stories based around farming, and Lazeez looked into before he agreed. Farming is as much a category to base a story around as western is. However, what people call gun porn is about how detailed they describe the guns they use when they use a gun in a story about something else.

Ernest Bywater

@robberhands


I'd welcome any tag, warning of 'boring long descriptions'. ... Despite the fact the discussion about a 'Gun Porn' tag started as a joke, I think such a code wouldn't be any less useful than many of the codes we do have now.


The trouble with the first part of your comment I quote is every person has their own idea of what constitutes a boring long description. Another aspect is they can apply to everything from descriptions of clothes, through meals, to sex scenes.

A related issue with codes is authors are supposed to list every code that's relevant to their story, but there is a limit as to how many codes you can apply to a story - maximum of 50 codes (I think). Thus when a story is such a lot of codes can be applied to it you start to run into significant issues as to which codes should be applied and which shouldn't.

With a long story with a lot of mixed types of sex scenes you can use up a dozen codes on the various ages and gender mixes before you even get onto what they do in the story.

Such things like extensive gun descriptions are only a minor aspect of a story, unless the whole story is set at a range and selecting a gun for a particular usage. In that case you can cover it in the story blurb.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

With a long story with a lot of mixed types of sex scenes you can use up a dozen codes on the various ages and gender mixes before you even get onto what they do in the story.

You're probably right; I wouldn't know since I never read stories with such excessive coding. If the number of codes exceeds a dozen, the chances are high one of my many squicks is tagged already.

ETA: Even the number of codes is a squick for me.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@robberhands

I have to admit I find gun porn a minor turn-off and detailed descriptions of weaponry, except in a sci-fi setting, incur the wrath of my key.

AJ

richardshagrin

@AmigaClone

"gun"

In Basic Training they taught the little rhyme: "This is my rifle, this is my gun, one is for fighting, the other for fun." Usually push-ups were involved if you used the wrong word.

Replies:   AmigaClone  PotomacBob
AmigaClone

@richardshagrin

The gun for fun in that little rhyme would definitely fit into porn.

The reason it was in quotes is that I was remembering a kid getting into trouble in school for biting a pop-tart in the shape vaguely reminiscent of a flat pistol or revolver.

Granted the so-called adults in that case (school officials, persecutors, judges) showed that they are the second kind of nuts.

The kid in that case would likely have also gotten into the same -if not worse - trouble had he said that little rhyme in school along with the gestures are (were?) taught with it :).

gruntsgt

Instead of "gun nut", why not Weapons Enthusiast? This would cover any and all types of weapons. As a Marine Infantry NCO, I personally look for the ways Authors use different tidbits of knowledge to enhance their stories. But that's just me.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play
Updated:

@gruntsgt

Instead of "gun nut", why not Weapons Enthusiast?

I had the same idea earlier. I suggested "something like Gun Aficionado", even though I knew that term was not right.
We both thought "Gun Porn" and "Gun Nut" have derogatory connotations which make them unsuitable.

Replies:   helmut_meukel
PotomacBob

@richardshagrin

It's a good thing the military doesn't control our dictionaries.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@PotomacBob

In the Artillery you can call your weapon a gun, as long as it isn't a rifle. A howitzer or cannon can be a gun. As far as I know, you can't call a mortar a gun.

Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

As far as I know, you can't call a mortar a gun.


Your first and last sentences seem to be in conflict. A mortar is smooth-bore, not rifled.

StarFleet Carl

@richardshagrin

you can't call a mortar a gun


The guys in the FA unit that was just down the road from my NBC unit, had different names for their weapons. They had their long guns (mostly 105's) that they called guns, and they had a section of 60's and 120's that they called little and big tubes.

helmut_meukel

@Ross at Play

We both thought "Gun Porn" and "Gun Nut" have derogatory connotations which make them unsuitable.


I thought of gun fetishist, also unsuitable.

OTOH, a female shoe fetishist isn't unsuitable for many (most?) men.

HM

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