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Smashwords survey on what sells and at what price

Bondi Beach

This survey doesn't break any terribly new ground, I think, but it's a useful summary of what sells and successful pricing and publishing strategies.

Spoiler alert (or old news, take your pick): Here's what sells by genre:

Romance (73% of the top 200 best-selling titles)
Erotica
Fantasy
Young Adult
Science Fiction
LGBT Fiction
Thriller
Historical Fiction
Adventure
Horror

bb

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Bondi Beach

Interesting. Thank you.

Romance novels tend to be quick reads but the average length of the top 70 romance novels is 113,000 words! I think the author hasn't analysed the data to sufficient depth.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

With regards to all these surveys of what sells from self publishing sites and publishers I'd like to see some relativity stats that include the number of titles they have in each category, and also like to know if they count a story in all the categories that apply to the story.

Take that top stat of Romance making 73% of their sales. It would look good if Romance was 10% of their titles, but bad if Romance was 90% of their titles. Also 73% of sales doesn't look all that good if the sales are 73 books out of 20,000 titles.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach

@Ernest Bywater

Take that top stat of Romance making 73% of their sales.


It's 73% of their top 200 best-selling titles, not their total sales. Whether the number is 10 or 10,000, it's pretty clear Romance is the top of the heap in e-books from Smashwords.

Romance tops Amazon's Kindle sales.

You know your task, Ernest. It's staring you in the face. There's no getting around it.

Romance.

And remember, skip the written crap on the cover of your next romance novel. Half-dressed male or female or both, and you're gold.

bb

Replies:   Joe Long  Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

Whenever I reports with stats like the ones in this I'm reminded of two reports analysing an Allied Commando Raid on North Africa during WW2. A small British force was landed behind the German lines to do certain tasks. They did most of them but failed in the main task. The British report on the action was along the lines of:

100 men landed, 25 killed, 58 captured, 17 escaped back to the landing craft and returned. 200 trucks of supplies destroyed, 20 tanks destroyed, estimated German casualties at over 200. Raid successful.

While the German report was along the lines of:

83% of enemy attackers killed or captured, 2% of vehicles damaged, 2% of defenders casualties. Enemy successfully repulsed.

You'd think they were talking about 2 different events due to the way one used raw figures and the other statistics. All statistics can be useful or bad, it depends on how you prepare them and how you relate them to the whole.

Ernest Bywater

I'd love to know what the stats are on the total sales.

Joe Long

@Bondi Beach

I have a young adult erotic romance. Now I only need to add some fantasy.

*God speaks - so some may consider that fantasy

robberhands

It's difficult to extract a lot of information out of this numbers. Maybe the number of books written in the different genres is corresponding to the number of sales counted. If 73% of all books are romance novels it wouldn't be much of a surprise that they also sell the most.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Bondi Beach

@Ernest Bywater

You'd think they were talking about 2 different events due to the way one used raw figures and the other statistics. All statistics can be useful or bad, it depends on how you prepare them and how you relate them to the whole.


Once in a qualifying race for an un-named Olympic event there were two contestants: one Soviet, one American. The Soviet news account was: "The Soviet contestant came in second. The American placed next to last."

I read it in Reader's Digest about 40 years ago, so it must be true.

bb

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

Romance novels tend to be quick reads but the average length of the top 70 romance novels is 113,000 words! I think the author hasn't analysed the data to sufficient depth.

Romance readers typically read an entire novel per day, so yeah, they're traditionally VERY short and quite trashy (in a 'classy' way (i.e. no vulgarities or 4-letter curse words)), while, as you note, sci-fi tends to run well over 100,000 words, which is hard to read in a week!

By the way, I posted the same SW article about a month or two back, if anyone is interested in reading the posts on the topic from back then.

Replies:   awnlee_jawking
Crumbly Writer

@Bondi Beach

It's 73% of their top 200 best-selling titles, not their total sales. Whether the number is 10 or 10,000, it's pretty clear Romance is the top of the heap in e-books from Smashwords.

Ernest's main point, though, is that most books have more than a single genre selection, so the majority of books (mystery, sci-fi, historical, etc.) are also considered "romance" as long as there are men and women in them, so the romance category is artificially inflated beyond the number of actual romance (as the prime category) books.

It's a valid point.

Smashwords allows two separate genre selections, but also allows either 6 or 8 catalogue (search) selections.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Crumbly Writer

@robberhands

It's difficult to extract a lot of information out of this numbers. Maybe the number of books written in the different genres is corresponding to the number of sales counted. If 73% of all books are romance novels it wouldn't be much of a surprise that they also sell the most.

The key isn't whether Romance books sell the most, but rather whether the Romance category counts the same book multiple times (i.e. they count every other book in with their own totals).

Replies:   robberhands
awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

The British report on the action was along the lines of:

100 men landed, 25 killed, 58 captured, 17 escaped back to the landing craft and returned. 200 trucks of supplies destroyed, 20 tanks destroyed, estimated German casualties at over 200. Raid successful.


Most Brits would claim that we won the Second World War. We went to war to restore the independence of Poland and failed - it became a Soviet vassal state.

Sorry guys, you've been a victim of spin. We lost!

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  Joe Long
awnlee_jawking

@Crumbly Writer

Romance readers typically read an entire novel per day,


But the average length of the top 70 romance novels is 113,000 words. Who routinely polishes off 113,000 words in one day!

AJ

Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

We went to war to restore the independence of Poland and failed - it became a Soviet vassal state.


You can thank Eisenhower for that. Due to his hatred and wanting to kill as many German soldiers as possible, instead of rolling for Berlin he directed his main forces to southern Germany to kill more soldiers instead of capturing the high command. Many experts say that if he'd gone direct for Berlin the war would gave been over three to six months earlier and well before the Soviets got into middle Europe. Thus Ike's failure help create the scene for the Cold War - but he was too short sighted to see any issues with the Soviets who had been Adolph's friends for so long.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee_jawking

But the average length of the top 70 romance novels is 113,000 words. Who routinely polishes off 113,000 words in one day!

Again, since EVERY book that features a male and female (or romantically charged gays or lesbians) labels itself a 'romance') the numbers are artificially classified as romance when they're NOT. If you include sci-fi in the romance category, you're dealing with MUCH longer books than what most romance fans are clamoring for.

What we need to determine is, SW's raw numbers. What were the total numbers of books they sold, and what's the total breakdown of each category added together. If they don't equal, the entire report is nothing but garb junk. Hell, you even have zombie romance books now!

robberhands

@Crumbly Writer

The key isn't whether Romance books sell the most, but rather whether the Romance category counts the same book multiple times (i.e. they count every other book in with their own totals).

That might be your key, but to me it's just a different matter.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@robberhands


That might be your key, but to me it's just a different matter.

The point of the SW missive wasn't which specific books sold the most, but how to market your book (i.e. if you want your book to sell, market it as romance, even if it's about spacefaring alien zombies. As far as I can tell, that's the only reason why Romance accounts for 70% of ALL books sold. Romance may be popular, but I doubt whether they buy 70% of everything.

To put it another way, women DON'T buy 70% of all books, nor do all women read only romance, but virtually everyone likes happy endings, and that involves the guy getting their girl (or the girl getting their girl), regardless of the nature of the book. As long as there is ANY romantic element in a book, it's classified as a "romance".

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Crumbly Writer

The point of the SW missive wasn't which specific books sold the most, but how to market your book

If 73% of all books clasify as romatic novels, and 73% of the best selling books are romance novels, what exactly does that tell you?

Joe Long

@awnlee jawking

Sorry guys, you've been a victim of spin. We lost!


You still have your country.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Joe Long

You still have your country.


We don't, but thanks to Brexit we're about to regain it ;)

AJ

Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

are also considered "romance" as long as there are men and women in them,


Not true. The Romance genre has specific requirements. So it could have romance in it, but not be in the Romance genre.

Someone once gave me the list of what's in the Romance genre, but I don't have it. It must have a lived-happily-ever-after ending, for example.

Replies:   Joe Long  Crumbly Writer
sunkuwan

@awnlee jawking

We don't, but thanks to Brexit we're about to regain it ;)


As a broken state?

Switch Blayde

@awnlee_jawking

But the average length of the top 70 romance novels is 113,000 words. Who routinely polishes off 113,000 words in one day!


That sounds high. I think the sweet spot for Romance is 75,000–90,000.

Sci-Fi and Fantasy are the ones over 100K. YA are more like 60k–80k.

Ross at Play
Updated:

@sunkuwan

As a broken state?

And a broke state. :-)

To AJ, I couldn't resist an opening like that. :-)

I have mentioned medium-term economic costs and you have mentioned long-term social benefits. I don't want to argue. Can we leave reality out of this exchange?

awnlee jawking

@sunkuwan

Was Poland a broken state when it gained freedom from the Soviet Union? Moldova? Slovenia? Croatia? Slovakia?

I think voters are beginning to realise that the smaller the population involved in an election, the more important their opinion. Smaller, independent states are the way forward.

Having said that, the USA really should pull its finger out and admit Haiti as its 51st state.

In the news today, India and Australia are manoeuvring for any post-Brexit trade deals to allow free movement of people too.

AJ

awnlee_jawking

@Switch Blayde

I think the sweet spot for Romance is 75,000–90,000.


For straight Romance I'd put it even lower, perhaps 60,000 words. I wonder if the top 70 'Romance' novels are bi-generic.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ross at Play

@awnlee jawking

In the news today, India and Australia are manoeuvring for any post-Brexit trade deals to allow free movement of people too.

WHAT??? They fought to keep civilised Europeans out only to turn around and let uncouth Aussies in? TOTAL MADNESS!

Replies:   robberhands
helmut_meukel

@awnlee jawking

When Scotland segregates before the Brexit is finalized, most in the EU will argue Scotland is still a member of the EU.

IIRC, one (IMO bogus) argument against separation during the last campaign was a separated Scotland would no longer be member of the EU.

HM.

robberhands

@Ross at Play

WHAT??? They fought to keep civilised Europeans out only to turn around and let uncouth Aussies in? TOTAL MADNESS!

It could be much worse but luckily Britain and Australia are both islands, a natural form of quarantine.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@robberhands

@Ross at Play
WHAT??? They fought to keep civilised Europeans out only to turn around and let uncouth Aussies in? TOTAL MADNESS!

@robberhands
It could be much worse but luckily Britain and Australia are both islands, a natural form of quarantine.

That was a pretty typical example of self-deprecating Australian humour: with an Aussie saying Europeans are good enough to be allowed into someone else's country - but Australians are not!

robberhands

@Ross at Play

I appreciate every self-deprecating Australian. I wish more Britains were like you.

Replies:   Ross at Play
helmut_meukel

@awnlee jawking

I think voters are beginning to realise that the smaller the population involved in an election, the more important their opinion. Smaller, independent states are the way forward.


Whenever in the last years the voting rights in the EU were discussed or the "Länderfinanzausgleich"—the financial adjustment between the german countries—I argued to split up into 16 separate states, all members of the EU. This would give the Germanies more clout in votings even when one or two of the new states would vote differently.
Small members of the EU have compared to their population significant more votes. e.g. France or Germany can be easily outvoted by a bunch of smaller members with less than half in total population.

HM.

Replies:   awnlee_jawking
Ross at Play

@robberhands

I wish more Britains were like you.

Understood, although ironically, we have a very similar sense of humour.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee jawking
Updated:

@helmut_meukel

When Scotland segregates before the Brexit is finalized, most in the EU will argue Scotland is still a member of the EU.


Even the most ardent Scottish Nationalists now accept that another referendum won't happen until after Brexit, and anyway the last election showed the tide turning against them. Having said that, I think Scottish independence is more or less inevitable. Oddly enough, from the way that they're insisting on open borders, the Republic of Ireland would probably be quite happy to rejoin the United Kingdom if only they didn't hate us so much. We are their major trading partner and we helped bail out their banks despite having no obligation to do so.

The EU rules are clear. Scotland must apply for its own membership in order to become part of the EU. Although EU rules didn't stop the Club Med countries joining the Euro, helped by rustling up some fraudulent data to pretend their economies were in sync with the rest of the bloc.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee_jawking

@helmut_meukel

Whenever in the last years the voting rights in the EU were discussed or the "Länderfinanzausgleich"—the financial adjustment between the german countries—I argued to split up into 16 separate states, all members of the EU. This would give the Germanies more clout in votings even when one or two of the new states would vote differently.


EU voting rules give founder members like France and Germany considerably more votes per head of population than newer members like Hungary and Poland. But even though I disagree with your reasoning, I think breaking Germany into 16 independent states would be a brilliant idea. It would de-fang the EU to the extent of postponing the forthcoming collision with Russia for at least a generation.

AJ

sunkuwan

So, you are in favor to dissolve Great Britain? Independence for Scotland, Wales, Gibraltar and North Ireland? All the remaining little islands? London?

The UK will crash after Brexit, crash hard. The trade deals the UK will make after will be one-sided against the UK. They have no clout with the big powers and even smaller countries can and will demand more because the UK is desperate for trade deals.

But as a European, Brexit is the best thing that could have happened. All other EU skeptic parties lost ground or no longer demand an exit of their own. And the British Extrawurst they got in the EU, is over.

For hundreds of years, it was the priority of the British diplomacy to influence the continent, always helping themselves to never break the status quo on the continent. Getting into war against the nation that wanted to expand, always trying to segregate nations. Always trying to influence.
After WWII they had to be in the EU (or the predecessor) to further influence Europe.
In the first time in hundreds of years, this policy is no longer in effect. The UK can no longer influence Europe.

Ross at Play

@sunkuwan

the priority of the British diplomacy

While British foreign policy has often left much to be desired, I at least give them some credit for consistency, in particular, after seeing how well the partitioning of Ireland and India on religious lines had worked, they used the same model for Palestine. :(

Geek of Ages
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

the USA really should pull its finger out and admit Haiti as its 51st state


I'd expect Puerto Rico to become a state well before Haiti; after all, Puerto Rico is already a territory of the United States and Haiti is an independent nation.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@sunkuwan

So, you are in favor to dissolve Great Britain?


No, I would prefer Scotland to stay part of the union.

The UK will crash after Brexit, crash hard.


Any reduction in trade with the EU will hit the EU harder than Britain. And we will no longer have to subsidise inefficient French farmers, fraudulent Greek olive groves, or the insane commute between the two of the three EU parliament buildings that actually get used (Brussels and Strasbourg). Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India and the USA are queuing up to make trade deals with us, and I can't see any deals being as one-sided as the one in which we had to sever our trading links with former colonies while the French kept theirs.

With a principle critic of federalism gone, the EU can progress full speed ahead, militarise, and accelerate its coming confrontation with Russia.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@Geek of Ages

Haiti is an independent nation


True, but it's a basket case and the USA keeps having to solve its problems for it. 52nd state then ;)

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

True, but it's a basket case and the USA keeps having to solve its problems for it. 52nd state then


The Dominican Republic might object if the USA annexes Haiti.

richardshagrin

Maybe American Samoa would want to claim the 52nd state status? Don't they speak French in Haiti? Maybe we can foist them off on Canada, lots of French speakers there.

Joe Long

@awnlee jawking

We don't, but thanks to Brexit we're about to regain it ;)


I was going to reference that, but couldn't remember which side of that issue you fell on.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Joe Long

@Switch Blayde

It must have a lived-happily-ever-after ending, for example.


I'm also hearing of happily-for-now. It's happy, but a more realistic 'at least for now.'

awnlee jawking

@Joe Long

I was going to reference that, but couldn't remember which side of that issue you fell on.


I'm pro-Brexit but I recognise we're going to chuck out a lot of good with the bad.

AJ

Switch Blayde

@Joe Long

I'm also hearing of happily-for-now.


Yep, for the life of me I couldn't remember that phrase.

helmut_meukel

@richardshagrin

Aren't there still some French speaking Cajuns somewhere in Louisiana?

HM.

Dominions Son

@helmut_meukel

Aren't there still some French speaking Cajuns somewhere in Louisiana?


Sort of. They speak a variation of French, but I wouldn't bet on it being recognized as such by a resident of Paris.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ross at Play

@Joe Long

I'm also hearing of happily-for-now. It's happy, but a more realistic 'at least for now.'

Or, from a cartoon by Non Sequitur, the preacher at a wedding says, "I now pronounce you man and wife. You may drop dating mode and go back to being who you really are."

awnlee jawking

@helmut_meukel

NCIS New Orleans occasionally drops some French into a scene to add local colour.

AJ

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

Not true. The Romance genre has specific requirements. So it could have romance in it, but not be in the Romance genre.

Again, I have NEVER ONCE walked into a bookstore where 70% of the shelves contained ONLY Romance novels. That, plus the fact that the entire SW article is based around "how to market your book" leads me to assume that they're ONLY counting "classifications", not specific genres. They're advising authors to label ANYTHING they write as "Romances" in order to boost sales. And since they DON'T break down the numbers, there's nothing suggesting their numbers AREN'T bogus.

Again, SW allows two separate genre categories, which are EXTREMELY broad. They also allow you to add SEO codes, allowing eight of these. Since all of those allow the use of "Romance" as a category, every book has 10 separate chances to classify their books as "Romance".

We're not talking about the books that "Romance Monthly" considers to be Romance books, we're talking about all the books that SW considers "Romance" for marketing purposes, not for tax purposes. (I've read the SW annual reports for the past 5 or 6 years, so I'm familiar with their emphasis and how they compose their numbers.) Again, for marketing purposes, if you list a book about alien tentacle monster's invading Earth, but you add a "Romance" SEO code, SW counts it as a ROMANCE book (as best as i can determine, since they NEVER list how they define the category). The 70% number is simply an unrealistic figure otherwise.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Crumbly Writer

@sunkuwan

As a broken state?

Not broken, just broke with no trading partners. But they'll be their own broke state, following their own rules dedicated to keeping Muslims out.

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

That sounds high. I think the sweet spot for Romance is 75,000–90,000.

Again, walk into ANY bookstore and check the romance section. At most, it'll have one, maybe two rows, and while the romance books have gotten thicker over the years, they're nowhere near 113,00 words. Again, I suspect that SW is jumbling the figures to the point they mean nothing OTHER THAN "this is how best to market YOUR book at achieve the BIGGEST sales".

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee_jawking

For straight Romance I'd put it even lower, perhaps 60,000 words. I wonder if the top 70 'Romance' novels are bi-generic.

Again, straight romance, lesbian romance, bi-romance and gay romance are ALL considered romance. As is Tentacle Monster romance. It's a meaningless category since they're counting 700 books out of every 100 sold (counting each book sold in multiple categories, with "Romance" being the most commonly used).

Crumbly Writer

@helmut_meukel

When Scotland segregates before the Brexit is finalized, most in the EU will argue Scotland is still a member of the EU.

IIRC, one (IMO bogus) argument against separation during the last campaign was a separated Scotland would no longer be member of the EU.

Regardless of whether Scotland segregates, if it divorces itself from England (Scotxit), the EU will accept it as a full member simply to spite England and to teach the other EU members not to fuck with them!

Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

That was a pretty typical example of self-deprecating Australian humour: with an Aussie saying Europeans are good enough to be allowed into someone else's country - but Australians are not!

We got it. It was a bit heavy-handed (i.e. impossible to miss).

Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

Understood, although ironically, we have a very similar sense of humour.

It's true. Turn on any TV and you'll see more naked breasts anywhere outside of "Game of Thrones"! (More broken penis's too.) It's common ratings fodder for the comedy shows and news programs.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

The EU rules are clear. Scotland must apply for its own membership in order to become part of the EU.

Remind me again what Scottish nationalism has to do with the 2016 Smashwords' survey?

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

Maybe American Samoa would want to claim the 52nd state status? Don't they speak French in Haiti? Maybe we can foist them off on Canada, lots of French speakers there.

America has ZERO interest in adding any new states. The new-state movement froze hard when Puerto Rico was made a territory, and they couldn't bypass Puerto Rico for a smaller island.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

Sort of. They speak a variation of French, but I wouldn't bet on it being recognized as such by a resident of Paris.

NO ONE speaks French that is acceptable to Parisians other than Parisians! Just like I had to order in restaurants for my Chinese friends in Chinatown in Manhattan, French Canadians have to order in English to get served in Paris.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

The new-state movement froze hard when Puerto Rico was made a territory, and they couldn't bypass Puerto Rico for a smaller island.


The problem with Puerto Rico is we've offered them their pick of independence and statehood and they can't make up their minds.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

we're talking about all the books that SW considers "Romance"


I didn't realize it was SW's classification. I don't give credit to that, just like I don't for Amazon's because it's the author who chooses it. I misunderstood the SW survey.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

A SOL thread, obviously :)

AJ

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

The problem with Puerto Rico is we've offered them their pick of independence and statehood and they can't make up their minds.

That's ALWAYS been the American procedure. The Federal government doesn't FORCE the decision on anyone, as it's the original State's right issues. Once the state votes, it's the majority of voters for force everyone else in the state to bow to their will! Just because Puerto Rico still likes to pretend they're independent, they'll never quit sucking at Americas's teat, and thus they'll NEVER become a State, which means America is unlikely to ever offer any other country territory status.

America has learned, it's easier to control the world economically than it is annexing it a piece at a time and having to tax and support everyone they want to control.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

I didn't realize it was SW's classification. I don't give credit to that, just like I don't for Amazon's because it's the author who chooses it. I misunderstood the SW survey.

Again, I've worked with Amazon for years. It IS the authors choice, but there IS no single genre choice. Instead, you pick the two which fit you story best, while also picking another eight which also promote you best for any readers who don't find it based on the overly vague category descriptions. Thus you've got TEN different category descriptions for every single book. Without Smashwords defining which category they're defining (primary definition, primary and secondary, or all TEN categories, the result are essentially meaningless.

In the publishing word, authors get no such choice. You submit a work as a particular predefined choice, which has specific requirement for submission, and you either get accepted or you don't. There's NO confusion in that case. The book is either Romance or it's not.

For instance, my Catalyst series was classified as:
1) Hard Science Fiction
2) General Science Fiction
3) Telepathy
4) Extra-Sensory Perception
5) Romance
6) Incest? (it wasn't clear until mid-way through the second book)

So would you count that book as a Romance novel, a science fiction novel, or an incest smut fest?

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

which means America is unlikely to ever offer any other country territory status.


We didn't offer territory status to Puerto Rico. We took it off Spain at the end of the Spanish American War along with Cuba and the Philippines.

Replies:   Joe Long  Crumbly Writer
Joe Long

@Dominions Son

We didn't offer territory status to Puerto Rico. We took it off Spain at the end of the Spanish American War along with Cuba and the Philippines.


Once we acquired them (and Guam) all were offered future status. Cuba was independent within 10 years. Philippines took 50. Guam and Puerto Rico chose to stay.

The purpose of taking them from Spain was to set them on a course of self-determination. The US had to resist the temptation of becoming a replacement world empire (but still controls almost the entire northern Pacific from California to Japan & Taiwan.)

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

We didn't offer territory status to Puerto Rico. We took it off Spain at the end of the Spanish American War along with Cuba and the Philippines.

No, but by taking it as a "U.S. Territory", that enables them a legal right to push for statehood. Given the hard feelings about Puerto Rico and the expenses in maintaining a largely poor population associate with acquiring land, the U.S. has largely turned its back on further land acquisitions.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

No, but by taking it as a "U.S. Territory", that enables them a legal right to push for statehood.


Territory status isn't an absolute prerequisite for statehood. Texas was never a U.S. Territory. Texas applied for statehood as a sovereign nation.

Replies:   Joe Long
Joe Long

@Dominions Son

Texas applied for statehood as a sovereign nation.


Mexico objected to that designation.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Joe Long

Mexico objected to that designation.


And they lost.

Replies:   Joe Long  Crumbly Writer
Joe Long

@Dominions Son

And they lost.


California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico

Dominions Son

@Joe Long

Actually, no.

Texas was admitted as a US state in 1845.

Mexico did not cede the territory that became California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico to the US until 1848.

Replies:   Joe Long
Ernest Bywater

@Joe Long

California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico


ayep, they did, after President Polk ignited the war by sending US troops onto Mexican soil to get the war started so he could grab the land. Then he promptly disenfranchised everyone on the lands except the American whites in the areas.

Joe Long

@Dominions Son

Texas becoming a state in 1845 precipitated the hostilities. The treaty at the end, in 1848, ceded the additional land.

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

And they lost.

They didn't 'lose', instead they were simply flatly ignored, and couldn't justify launching a war with the U.S. over it. Since they were given no opportunity to enter into the process (i.e. allowed the opportunity to file an international lawsuit) there was no way for their legal points to be considered.

But then, my personal knowledge of Texas history is sparse at best. I'm sure those raised there, and indoctrinated for years like I was in Virginia, could detail the specifics.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

They didn't 'lose', instead they were simply flatly ignored, and couldn't justify launching a war with the U.S.


That's not what I was referring to. I Wasn't referring to Mexico objecting to Texas becoming a US state, but to Mexico objecting to Texas being a sovereign nation.

Texas fought a war for independence from Mexico in 1835-1836. Texas won that war.

Texas was an independent sovereign nation from 1836 until they became a US state in 1845.

Crumbly Writer

By the way, I just checked CreateSpace. The people who publish PRINTED books have no problems tracking and reporting sales, because (at least CreateSpace, and each of the major publishers) only allow a single BISAC category selection. (BISAC stands for Book Industry Standards and Communications, which is compiled by the BSG, or the Book Study Group). Thus a Romance book is ONLY a Romance book. It's not a Romance AND a sci-fi AND a Historical Drama AND a Lesbian Mystery!

Smashwords, like many ebook publishers, are playing fast and loose with their actual sales figures (which probably explains WHY I have so many problems reconciling Amazon's sales figures). By totaling sales by each genre, they reach totals 4, 5 or 7 times greater than the total number of ebooks they've physically sold!

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Thus a Romance book is ONLY a Romance book. It's not a Romance AND a sci-fi AND a Historical Drama AND a Lesbian Mystery!


It's not quite as black and white as you suggest.

http://bisg.org/page/Fiction

FIC027000 FICTION / Romance / General
FIC027260 FICTION / Romance / Action & Adventure
FIC049060 FICTION / Romance / African American
FIC027270 FICTION / Romance / Clean & Wholesome
FIC027080 FICTION / Romance / Collections & Anthologies
FIC027020 FICTION / Romance / Contemporary
FIC027010 FICTION / Romance / Erotica
FIC027030 FICTION / Romance / Fantasy
FIC027050 FICTION / Romance / Historical / General
FIC027140 FICTION / Romance / Historical / Ancient World
FIC027150 FICTION / Romance / Historical / Medieval
FIC027070 FICTION / Romance / Historical / Regency
FIC027160 FICTION / Romance / Historical / Scottish
FIC027280 FICTION / Romance / Historical / Tudor
FIC027200 FICTION / Romance / Historical / 20th Century
FIC027170 FICTION / Romance / Historical / Victorian
FIC027180 FICTION / Romance / Historical / Viking
FIC027290 FICTION / Romance / Holiday
FIC027300 FICTION / Romance / LGBT / General
FIC027190 FICTION / Romance / LGBT / Gay
FIC027210 FICTION / Romance / LGBT / Lesbian
FIC027220 FICTION / Romance / Military
FIC027230 FICTION / Romance / Multicultural & Interracial
FIC027240 FICTION / Romance / New Adult
FIC027120 FICTION / Romance / Paranormal / General
FIC027310 FICTION / Romance / Paranormal / Shifters
FIC027320 FICTION / Romance / Paranormal / Vampires
FIC027250 FICTION / Romance / Romantic Comedy
FIC027130 FICTION / Romance / Science Fiction
FIC027330 FICTION / Romance / Sports
FIC027110 FICTION / Romance / Suspense
FIC027090 FICTION / Romance / Time Travel
FIC027100 FICTION / Romance / Western

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

Thus a Romance book is ONLY a Romance book. It's not a Romance AND a sci-fi AND a Historical Drama AND a Lesbian Mystery!

It's not quite as black and white as you suggest.

The key isn't how specific the genre is, it's how often it's specified. As I stated earlier, for print books, authors can ONLY pick a single category, which makes tracking sales of books simple. For ebooks, since authors can choose 2 - 10 different categories (split between the established BISAC codes (and everyone has their own selection of codes!) and the SEO tags authors add to target specific audiences, the number of books sold gets confused as they count the same books multiple times in different categories.

It isn't that Romance readers purchase 70% of ALL books sold. Instead it's that authors market 70% of all books as "Romance" in order to boost their sales, regardless of the primary genre the book was written in.

The smashwords document we're referencing is produced every year as a way of informing authors HOW BEST to market their books (i.e. what price to charge, how best to promote them, where to focus, etc.) It's NOT a summary of how many books Smashwords sells overall.

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