It's time to vote for your favourite story and author in this year's clitoridesawards. [ X Dismiss ]
Home « Forum « Author Hangout

Forum: Author Hangout

Sexist, or Self-Defense. Which?

graybyrd
Updated:

Current Vice President Mike Pence stated publicly that he will not be alone with a woman not his wife, at a meal, a conference, etc. He's receiving something of a hailstorm of criticism from certain feminist quarters as being "sexist" in his attitude. He defends himself as being respectful of his marriage, and not wishing to permit the slightest credence to accusations of temptation or infidelity.

Two points in my mind: first, it's a proper and necessary self-defense necessary to protect oneself against predatory and malicious opportunists who could later make (baseless) accusations. With no witnesses, it's the classic 'he said, she said' case where the accused party stands guilty until proven innocent.

The other point: why is his position so objectionable? It appears the critics want it both ways: they wish to be free to make accusations if a remark, or gesture, or question during an encounter is _perceived_ by them to be improper, harassing, sexist, or provocative; but they also demand that he expose himself to potentially self-entrapping situations, lest it appear that it is indeed, a potentially perilous position.

I'm also taken by the reality that the VP's wife is NOT a slender trophy blonde, but more closely resembles millions of real-life spouses. And he calls her the most beautiful brunette in the world. Fascinating!

In the US, currently, there is no plausible defense against the character assassination of one party accusing another party of sexual aggression. Unless, of course, the accused is sufficiently wealthy, powerful, or celebrated to be held untouchable.

What say?

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@graybyrd


Two points in my mind: first, it's a proper and necessary self-defense necessary to protect oneself against predatory and malicious opportunists who could later make (baseless) accusations.


It's also incredibly easy for him to make that claim. Have you seen any photos from the administration recently? There's only a single woman in any of them, and she's never doing anything other than sitting on the couch putting on fingernail polish.

The reason he doesn't have lunch with women is because he doesn't think they're worth the effort--meaning he wouldn't discuss anything other than sex with them anyway.

Also, don't tell me this isn't going to come back and bite him in the ass, but like all those Republicans who rail against gays, only to be caught in a public men's restroom trolling for lovers.

Added: Finally, almost every talk show I turned on today had the women honestly debating whether that's admirable or a dangerous trend. It's hardly a wholesale character assassination.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

The reason he doesn't have lunch with women is because he doesn't think they're worth the effort--meaning he wouldn't discuss anything other than sex with them anyway.


Oh, please... seriously?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@graybyrd


Oh, please... seriously?


Hey, seriously. The Trump campaign routinely quotes white supremacists, is led by white-supremacist 'alt-right' bigots, and they've shown little compassion for any women's group in existence. I don't think it's a stretch to assume the Mike Pense doesn't respect women or thinks they're intelligent enough to make choices (like whether to have abortions or not) that affect their own lives.

While the Republican party actively denies women the right to decide their own fates, they at least respect them enough to allow them to speak and invite them into their 'private boys' clubs' (inner sanctums).

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

He's smart for doing that.

Managers' offices in corporations have glass windows to see in. You can't hear what's going on, but you can see it. It's to protect both the employee and manager.

When I go to my female dermatologist for a skin checkup, I'm stripped down to my underwear. She won't come in if a nurse isn't there. I don't think it's because she's afraid I'll attack her.

That's the world we live in. In has nothing to do with being sexist.

Grant

@graybyrd

He defends himself as being respectful of his marriage, and not wishing to permit the slightest credence to accusations of temptation or infidelity.

So he won't allow himself to be alone with another man in case there are allegations of temptation or infidelity as well?
What of a young child, male or female?
If so, then OK.
If it applied to all people, male female, young & old then he'd be saying no one can be trusted.
If it's just women, then it is just sexist. All he's saying is that women can't be trusted.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@Grant


What of a young child, male or female?


I would suggest he is applying reasonable limits; 'playing the odds,' so to say. It seems extremely unlikely a male would make an accusation. As for a young child, only an unaware fool would be alone with a child without parents or guardians or responsible witnesses present.

As for the 'trust' issue, isn't that the point? The reality of US social encounters has devolved to the point where self-protections and public validations are necessary.

I'm an elderly male. If I were found in a corner of our local public park, reading stories to a circle of children, with a girl in my lap...

Hell, I can't even volunteer to be a storyteller at our local library without undergoing a background check!

Replies:   Grant  Switch Blayde
Grant

@graybyrd

As for the 'trust' issue, isn't that the point? The reality of US social encounters has devolved to the point where self-protections and public validations are necessary.

So no person can be alone with any other person, otherwise problems might ensue.
So there must be at least 4 people in a room at any one time, better yet make that 5. The 2 main people, 1 supporter of either, and a 5th party not affiliated with either just in case with full video & audio recording taking place.

Sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Grant

Sounds pretty ridiculous to me.


That's pretty much the case. Although the obvious absurdity of your example intends to belittle the point, the reality of the risk remains.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@graybyrd

the reality of the risk remains.

And the likely hood and actual instances of it occurring are non existent, so it's just a whole lot of smoke and mirrors to distract people from real issues.
If you choose to help with the smoke & mirror distractions, that's your choice. It would be nice if you would focus on actual problems, not made up ones.
But then think of all spin doctors that would be out of work. We can't have that now can we?
Never let reality get in the way of stuff and nonsense.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Ross at Play

@graybyrd

Current Vice President Mike Pence stated publicly that he will not be alone with a woman not his wife, at a meal, a conference, etc. He's receiving something of a hailstorm of criticism from certain feminist quarters as being "sexist" in his attitude. He defends himself as being respectful of his marriage, and not wishing to permit the slightest credence to accusations of temptation or infidelity.
What say?

Why should it even matter why he made that choice?

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@Ross at Play

Why should it even matter why he made that choice?

Because it applies only to a particular part of the population, and being a politician he should be able to represent all of the population and sometimes that might require private and confidential meetings.

Replies:   Ross at Play  Not_a_ID
Ross at Play

@Grant

Because it applies only to a particular part of the population

I do not see any particular harm to that part of the population, so I would support his freedom to choose.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Not_a_ID

@graybyrd

Current Vice President Mike Pence stated publicly that he will not be alone with a woman not his wife, at a meal, a conference, etc. He's receiving something of a hailstorm of criticism from certain feminist quarters as being "sexist" in his attitude. He defends himself as being respectful of his marriage, and not wishing to permit the slightest credence to accusations of temptation or infidelity.


That actually took the form of Sexual Harassment training 101 while I was in the Navy.

If you're in a position of authority over a person of the other gender, never ever put yourself in a position where you are left alone in the same room as that person. It opens doors to accusations being made that you're not going to be able to counter effectively enough to save your career.

Not_a_ID

@Grant

And the likely hood and actual instances of it occurring are non existent, so it's just a whole lot of smoke and mirrors to distract people from real issues.
If you choose to help with the smoke & mirror distractions, that's your choice. It would be nice if you would focus on actual problems, not made up ones.


At least on the Navy side, circa 10 years ago, the sexual harassment claim was common enough that almost every enlisted person who was in the senior enlisted ranks (Which I'll specify as E-6 and up in this case, rather than E-7) knew of at least 1 person they knew of personally who had been accused of exactly that, and had their career destroyed from it. Some of them knew more than one.

From there you get to one to two degrees of separation and that number just became really bad in their book. Of the accusations they were aware of(often knowing of the accuser as well), they also were fairly certain only a small number of them had much of any validity to them.

Not_a_ID

@Grant

Because it applies only to a particular part of the population, and being a politician he should be able to represent all of the population and sometimes that might require private and confidential meetings.


Outside of an employment scenario, I'm not seeing where that degree of privacy or confidentiality would be warranted on a "personal political matter" that he is trying to represent people on.

Now if he was a victim's advocate or something like that, then we're in a different ball game, but he's a politician, not a lawyer or counselor/psychologist.

garymrssn

When you place women in that kind of bubble you reduce their ability to do their job effectively. The higher up in the corporate or political ladder the more private one on one conversations are required.
The competition for advancement is fierce. The slightest inconvenience can make the difference in gaining a promotion. What Pence proposes is not a slight inconvenience. For women seeking advancement it is a very real impediment.

Ernest Bywater

@garymrssn

What Pence proposes is not a slight inconvenience. For women seeking advancement it is a very real impediment.


From what is said in this forum about what he said, he's not placing any blocks in their way. in the original post it was said:

Current Vice President Mike Pence stated publicly that he will not be alone with a woman not his wife, at a meal, a conference, etc.

There shouldn't be any reason for any business activity where he can't have a third person with him, and in a non-business situation he can have his wife with him. Given the options of:

a. Having a third person present when with a person of the other gender, or

b. Never meeting with or dealing with a person of the other gender, or

c. Being accused of doing or saying something inappropriate,

He chose (a) as the least risk to himself and others. He could have gone for (b) and put blocks in the paths of women, but he didn't.

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

I'm an elderly male. If I were found in a corner of our local public park, reading stories to a circle of children, with a girl in my lap...


When I tell friends I hang out at wattpad, and that wattpad is mostly teenage girls, you can't believe the looks I get. Then I have to quickly add that I mostly hang out in a club with adults that discusses the publishing industry.

StarFleet Carl

@garymrssn

The competition for advancement is fierce. The slightest inconvenience can make the difference in gaining a promotion. What Pence proposes is not a slight inconvenience. For women seeking advancement it is a very real impediment.


Two names: Mary Jo Kopechne, Monica Lewinsky.

Does that answer why women being alone with politicians can lead to problems?

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@StarFleet Carl

Two names: Mary Jo Kopechne, Monica Lewinsky.

Does that answer why women being alone with politicians can lead to problems?

2 out hundreds of thousands (at the very least).
Yeah, I know it's important to focus on the non-issues to avoid dealing with real issues.
Politics 101.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Grant

Yeah, I know it's important to focus on the non-issues to avoid dealing with real issues.
Politics 101.


All it takes is one false accusation where you can't prove it false beyond a shadow of a doubt and the person's career and life is destroyed. With the number of angry rectums out there ready to do

Ava G

@graybyrd

Two points in my mind: first, it's a proper and necessary self-defense necessary to protect oneself against predatory and malicious opportunists who could later make (baseless) accusations.


And there's no male who would make (baseless) accusations about Pence propositioning him? We know there are closeted politicians (see Larry "Wide Stance" Craig as an example).

Your "predatory and malicious opportunists" can come in any gender (or none). Therefore, for Pence to be consistent, he can't be with alone with anyone he's not married.

Since he's refusing to be alone with women but not with men, he's being sexist.

He defends himself as being respectful of his marriage, and not wishing to permit the slightest credence to accusations of temptation


Through this policy, Pence has opened himself up to accusations of temptation. Apparently he can only think of women in a sexual content, and that's creepy.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  Not_a_ID
Ernest Bywater

@Ava G

And there's no male who would make (baseless) accusations about Pence propositioning him?

I've not yet heard of anyone being vilified due to a baseless accusation from a guy, but there are numerous examples of such accusations from females. Thus he's only going with the percentages.

Replies:   Ava G
Ava G

@Ernest Bywater

I've not yet heard of anyone being vilified due to a baseless accusation from a guy,


Would this story about Elton John qualify?

There's also the situation found in Joaquin v. City of Los Angeles, where one male employee, disciplined by his male supervisor for leaving work early without permission, took revenge by claiming that supervisor was sexually harassing him.

That came from just ten minutes on Google search. It isn't that hard to find cases.

Thus he's only going with the percentages.


Let's assume that (a) any specific woman would be more likely to bring about a baseless suit than any specific man, and (b) the person in question meets with more men than women.

In that case, it is still possible that the person is more likely to face a baseless suit from a man than a woman.

[Making up some numbers - 2% of women will bring a baseless suit, while 1% of men do so. I'm exaggerating here to make the math work. Out of 1000 meetings, 700 are with men, and 300 with women. This person will face 13 baseless suits, but 7 of them are from men.]

Let's also try a thought experiment. Suppose a VP Michelle Pence refuses to be alone with a man not her husband. I have little doubt that the defenders of Mike Pence would consider Michelle's behavior to be sexist and discriminatory. So why should Mike get a pass for his sexism?

He shouldn't.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  Not_a_ID
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Ava G


Would this story about Elton John qualify?


As I said, I'd not heard of that or the other one, maybe because they don't happen as often as the other. In today's age anyone of either gender in a highly visible public position should never be alone with a person of the other gender.

In some work environments in Australia it's been a policy to never be alone with a person of the other gender in a work situation. Having others there protects you and them and the organisation you work for.

edit to add: In a high political position it's easy to have an assistant, aide or clerk with you at any meeting - most usually do.

Not_a_ID

@Ava G

[Making up some numbers - 2% of women will bring a baseless suit, while 1% of men do so. I'm exaggerating here to make the math work. Out of 1000 meetings, 700 are with men, and 300 with women. This person will face 13 baseless suits, but 7 of them are from men.]


The odds are likely more strongly skewed then that. Also, Elton John is a poor comparison, as he's openly gay/into men so "the bar" on making an accusation against him for other men is much lower than it is with Pence(where the male accuser would need to establish with a fair degree of certainty, that Pence likes men sexually).

The other thing in the mix is many men are practically oblivious to sexual advances, while many there is no shortage of women who will claim nearly everything is a sexual advance towards them.

Next layer also is things like victim advocacy groups repeatedly saying that male "victimization rate" for a number of sex related offences is higher than studies and other evidence suggests. Because the men involved either didn't view it as such themselves(oblivious), or they're not going to come forwards because they feel it will emasculate them in other ways. As it's "unmanly" to be a victim, so they'll suck it up instead.

Which also gives us a tertiary adjunct to the above, as men trend towards being oblivious, and also (believed to) trend strongly towards not reporting. For a man to acknowledge a homosexual advance as having happened, and for it to get reported, there are going to aspersions cast as to their sexuality too. (Going with the Larry Craig example, IIRC, the congressional staffers/interns who came forward were acknowledged as being Gay. So in that respect, a typical straight guy is going to be wary of reporting being on the receiving end)

Replies:   Ava G
Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

I do not see any particular harm to that part of the population, so I would support his freedom to choose.

So the only objective of any politician should be "don't piss of white, rich males and you can do whatever you want to anyone else you want to?"

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

"don't piss of white, rich males and you can do whatever you want to anyone else you want to?"

It's worked for several hundred years, now, and the current administration is pretty much reinforcing that approach.

Replies:   REP
REP

@graybyrd

It's worked for several hundred years, now, and the current administration is pretty much reinforcing that approach.


It seems CW was addressing the morality/ethics of the action. As we all know, most politician seem to be lacking in those qualities.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@REP

As we all know, most politician seem to be lacking in those qualities.


most deny such qualities exist, especially the socialist leaning ones.

Ava G

@Not_a_ID

The odds are likely more strongly skewed then that.


Actually, the real odds are overstated.
*There are slightly over 150,000,000 employed people in the United States.
*The EEOC receives about 7,000 complaints of sexual harassment a year, of which 1 in six are men. Even if we double that for claims filed on a state or federal level, that's only 1% of 1% who file claims.

The number of false claims is much smaller - we're at about one false claim for every 100,000 or so workers.

For such a small number, you are willing to eliminate all chances of women working one-on-one with men. This is bad sexism.

---
There's another thing to consider.

Nearly one-third of the 90,000 charges of discrimination received by the EEOC last fiscal year included workplace harassment. That includes sexual harassment, from Mad Men­­–style boorishness to anti-trans persecution—as well as racial and ethnic harassment.


If we apply Pence's rule to this situation, we must conclude that it is unsafe for a white boss to have one-on-one meetings with anyone who isn't white. We simply have to be careful of false accusations of racial harassment. (Such a policy would be racism, of course, but I don't see how this is different from the sexism Pence advocates.)

Then we can't let any non-Christians meet one-on-one with Pence - false claims of religious harassment, don't you know? Continue with this, and only straight white cisgender Christian men can meet one-on-one with Pence.

This, of course, puts anybody who isn't a straight white cisgender Christian male at a political and a personal disadvantage.

Would you say that a White politician deliberately avoiding one-on-one meetings with a Black person, using "I might get falsely sued for harassment" as a pretext, is doing something morally wrong? If so, isn't Pence's behavior just as wrong?

Replies:   graybyrd  REP
graybyrd

@Ava G

isn't Pence's behavior just as wrong?


All ranting aside, it's essentially the same (as was mentioned earlier) as a physician requiring a nurse to be present in the closed-door room as she examines her patient's prostrate gland. None can claim inappropriate behavior occurred; all are covered by witness statements, including the patient.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

Ah, but you're forgetting "resolution at the lowest level" practices and policies. Not every sexual harassment case gets reported to the Fed's, even if the employee reports it to their HR Department. In fact, employers are very much going to trend towards wanting to bury it. Which usually means bad things for the person being accused, with little recourse for them should the accusation be false but they lack evidence to support themselves. (He said, she said)

The Federal Government, and other outside agencies would only get involved if a complainant is unhappy with the resolution that was offered previously, or skipped the internal (HR) process.

Just based on anecdotal evidence I'm aware of from my time in the Navy, 7 to 15 thousand cases a year seems low, at least historically. Also you're ignoring what I opened with, which was having a witness if you're a supervisor for a member of the other gender. So it isn't just male supervisor on female subordinates, it's female supervisors on male subordinates as well.

And given the increasing number of female managers, that can account for the 11 to 16% of federal complainants being male, and why the trendline is increasing(particularly when you further add in that men are believed to under-report). They're lodging complaints against female supervisors. Sadly, the data presented doesn't provide breakdowns on the genders of all involved, at least, in that table.

Not_a_ID

@graybyrd

All ranting aside, it's essentially the same (as was mentioned earlier) as a physician requiring a nurse to be present in the closed-door room as she examines her patient's prostrate gland. None can claim inappropriate behavior occurred; all are covered by witness statements, including the patient.

Last I checked, that is a patient option, not so much for the doctor. The patient can request a third party be present.

Although the doctor can just as easily bring "an assistant" into the examination room if they're concerned a particular patient may make accusations all the same.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Not_a_ID

Last I checked, that is a patient option, not so much for the doctor.


The requirement for a witness various with the laws of the location the practice is, the policies of the practice, the requirements of their liability insurer, the concerns of the doctor, and the concerns of the patient.

Many liability insurance companies set out requires the insured have to abide by in they do not want their policy voided and they're not covered. There's a wide range of subjects where the insurance companies impose rules on the clients if the clients want lower insurance rates - random drug testing, high quality security locks, security cameras, corporate behavior policies, etc.

REP

@Ava G

This is bad sexism.


Agreed, but there is no good sexism.

Bondi Beach

@graybyrd

Current Vice President Mike Pence stated publicly that he will not be alone with a woman not his wife, at a meal, a conference, etc. He's receiving something of a hailstorm of criticism from certain feminist quarters as being "sexist" in his attitude. He defends himself as being respectful of his marriage, and not wishing to permit the slightest credence to accusations of temptation or infidelity.


Aside from his fear of baseless accusations, his stance is rooted in an interpretation by some Christians, and shared by Orthodox Jews and some Muslims, that women are inherently temptresses---they can't help it, it's the way God made them---and that the only way to shield oneself from that temptation is to separate the sexes. And from there you get long dresses, high necklines, hijabs, etc., etc.

Part of this thinking is that the genders have defined roles and God intended them to stick to those roles. In this interpretation, hanging out with women after work in bars is not consistent with these pre-ordained roles.

Emma Thompson's character in Fortunes of War had the best line on this subject, when she responds to an Arab man who offers his protection to her as a woman traveling alone. "You can't make men chaste by hiding women," she says.

Yes, in this day and age there's plenty of false accusations or fear of them---although to judge by the news in the Navy the senior officers get off regularly when accused, even if NCOs reportedly don't---but that's only a part of Pence's stance. The religious one is more important. Remember, he's a Christian first. He said so.

bb

Replies:   REP
REP
Updated:

@Bondi Beach


that women are inherently temptresses---they can't help it, it's the way God made them---and that the only way to shield oneself from that temptation is to separate the sexes


It sounds to me that these men are saying, "As a man, I am not responsible for the lustful thoughts that keep me from controlling my actions. It is the woman's fault for my sexually driving me to attack her. The sight of a woman inflames my thoughts beyond my ability to control myself."

I wonder how these so called "MEN" act around a woman who is dressed in a garment that fully covers her body. Do they attack her because of what they imagine what she might look like.? When at home, do they lose control, when their daughters and female relatives dress in a more revealing manner within the man's home.

Little BOYS allow their emotions to control their actions, MEN control the emotions that might lead them into inappropriate actions.

edited to correct typo

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Ava G


We know there are closeted politicians (see Larry "Wide Stance" Craig as an example).


AFAIK, Larry Craig still denies all claims as to his actually being either homosexual or bisexual.

Which at this point makes it likely he potentially is telling the truth. At this point, or even 8 years ago, he would have had more to gain by "coming out" rather than continuing to deny it.

Bondi Beach

@REP

The sight of a woman inflames my thoughts beyond my ability to control myself


Exactly. Which means it's the woman's fault, of course. She needs to be less inflaming so we'll cover her up and separate her.


Do they attach her because of what they imagine what she might look like.?


A girlfriend in high school countered my complaint about loose high-waisted dresses and smocks by saying more or less the same thing: "There might be something really interesting going on under there," or words to that effect.

bb

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Bondi Beach

"There might be something really interesting going on under there,"


Hence the old slang expression, "That girl's got a walk like a sack full of wildcats!"

Tw0Cr0ws

Long before the US elections Linus Torvalds (the creator of the Linux kernel) said the same thing.
He is not a right wing politician or religious fanatic.

When he said that he said there were radical feminists using claims of unwanted sexual actions in that sort of no witness scenario to destroy males in leadership positions.
He was specific that it was happening already.

Anotherp08

My grandmother used to tell me, "IT is not always enough to avoid evil. you should live your life avoiding the appearance of evil."
I'm not sure I can accept it to the degree she did. However, I can say on two occasions that advice saved me from malicious attacks by females in the programming field. Both time I swear I heard that old woman speak from her grave.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Anotherp08

IT is not always enough to avoid evil ... in the programming field.


Writing "it" in all caps while mentioning programming can lead one to believe Information Technology is not always enough to avoid evil. LOL

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Switch Blayde

Very true! How often we hear the corporate drone's excuse, "But the computer says ..."

AJ

ezrick

@graybyrd

it's a proper and necessary self-defense necessary to protect oneself against predatory and malicious opportunists who could later make (baseless) accusations


I really, really, really want to believe that the fairer sex is just that.

On the other hand, have you read about the Dallas Cowboy's running back? Everyone I can find believes the domestic abuse charges against him are false. Her best friend testified that she told her she was making it up. A bar full of people saw her in a cat-fight in the bar only an hour before she called the police, and two witnesses at the apartment testified (I guess gave statements is a better explanation) that he never touched the girl. The police absolutely refused to file charges.

And he STILL has an NFL investigation hanging over him last I saw. The charges are considered so inflammatory in today's society, the league feels like it has no choice but to drag on and on.

So, yeah, if that's what the VP thinks is necessary to protect himself from such things I guess he's entitled to that opinion.

Replies:   graybyrd
sejintenej

@awnlee jawking

Very true! How often we hear the corporate drone's excuse, "But the computer says ..."


and the person i/c IT will not allow any suggestion that his/her toy is fallible or that the programmer has made a right royal balls-up. It is always the drone's fault (even if the computer claims that the North Pole enjoys a nice warm climate)

graybyrd

@ezrick

So, yeah, if that's what the VP thinks is necessary to protect himself from such things I guess he's entitled to that opinion.


Like wise momma said, "Avoid even the appearance of evil." She should have added, "and always have an impartial witness!"

Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

Very true! How often we hear the corporate drone's excuse, "But the computer says ..."


That's due to the corporate or organisational policy, culture, and orders. I've worked in organisations where no one at the lowest three levels of work have any authority to do anything except leave work after finishing time, and it's only the lowest two levels that have client contact. The staff are ordered to follow what's on the file or computer record etc., and they can't do anything else.

That is not how it should be done, but it is the way it's done most of the time. What's worse is when you strike an employee who has trouble saying their own name right because they only have one brain cell, or less.

sharkjcw
Updated:

Check this out!! New York Daily News article.

Kellyanne Conway accuses Anderson Cooper of 'sexism' over eyeroll.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kellyanne-conway-accuses-anderson-cooper-of-%e2%80%98sexism%e2%80%99-over-eyeroll/ar-BBB1hNx?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@sharkjcw

Kellyanne Conway accuses Anderson Cooper of 'sexism' over eyeroll.

What? Not even the gay descendant of Vanderbuilt is safe? Whatever shall we do?

red61544

@graybyrd

Current Vice President Mike Pence stated publicly that he will not be alone with a woman not his wife, at a meal, a conference, etc.


If only his boss were the same! I'm amazed that The Donald didn't perceive Pence's remarks to be a criticism of Donald's "adventures" with women and attempt to fire him for the criticism.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@red61544

I'm amazed that The Donald didn't perceive Pence's remarks to be a criticism of Donald's "adventures" with women and attempt to fire him for the criticism.


Trump's not worried about false accusations because he gets away with doing it for real all the time.

Back to Top