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JRyter please don't go ...

noneck

Hi JRyter,

I noticed your blog post on the main page today.

I've been a fan of your work since Eli Crow. I'll admit that I don't think I've read all of your works but Eli Crow was a story that I really enjoyed. I haven't read Yondering Trails yet as I've tried to stop reading in progress stories until they are complete. Too many of my favorite stories are incomplete due to loss of authors (deceased).

I just want to say take the time to have a break but please don't leave.

I hope to see more of your work in the future.

All the best.

Replies:   grandad_rufus
shinerdrinker

Wonderfully put, noneck. Wonderfully put.

We are losing, in my opinion, the best Old West writer on this site. Hopefully he doesn't stay gone forever.

But in the meantime, I'll care for his words and hope he comes back around these parts sometime soon. The possibility is there for his return but he really needs to get away from the damn troll fools.

I agree with him 1000 percent about the problem and he has dealt with these asses a lot longer than I have so I will happily give him the time he needs to heal.

But I choose to believe that if we need him to return, he will. Just like the gunfighter who has to leave after saving the town... he'll always be welcomed here. And I personally will enjoy reading whatever he comes back with.

Vaya con dios, jryter.

graybyrd

Some authors have decried the "1 Bomb" devastation of the SOL scoring system, and typically are ignored, patronized, or told their reaction is unjustified.

Most authors share their work in hope of some recognition, appreciation, and satisfaction. Considerable sensitivity and emotion is involved. JRyter's blog post exemplifies what results from a hostile environment.

SOL lacks controls to prevent such abuse. Turning off scoring results in a severe author benefits penalty. Rejecting anonymous feedback invites low-score retaliation.

Some endure; others don't. So we lose another one.

Sad.

Perhaps authors should become like politicians: if one can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Of course, the corollary to that is the mindset that the voters/readers should simply "piss off"...

Some authors have publicly stated such opinions. The author of "Wolves and Dragons of the Blood" is famously known for that attitude. But that is a singularly minority case; most authors reject that callous defense.

JRyter is a valued contributor. The loss diminishes us all.

Okay, that's my opinion. Let the acrimonious drift begin.

zebra69347

JRyter has, in my opinion, written some good stories around the "old west". Just finished his latest yarn. Certainly wishing to see more.

Wheezer

Sometimes I think that the best scoring system we could have is a simple 'Like' button. Readers either indicate they like a story or they ignore it - no dislike button, no numerical score. Like it or STFU and move on. Let the authors decide if they want to enable or disable comments.

HSWilkinson

Yeup, I want JRyter to keep posting here. Though, I can understand his not wanting to have his stories voted on.

graybyrd

@Wheezer

Sometimes I think that the best scoring system we could have is a simple 'Like' button.

Boy, howdy! I'll second that motion.

Replies:   geo1951
REP

I read your blog, and agree you need some time away from SOL – a vacation, not a permanent departure.

Writers have to be thick skinned to survive, but after lots of wear, things start getting to you. Saying 'Ignore the Idiots' is a nice platitude, but doing it is not easy.

I agree about the 1-bombers rating stories without reading them. Some people just love to trash others. I think it is a form of mental illness. If writing is what gives you pleasure, do it. Set scoring to off, and do your thing.

reader45

JRyter,
I read your blog and I'm disgusted that unappreciative morons have ruined your pleasure and enjoyment in sharing your tales with us. Your fans will miss you and we will hope that you just take time away from the jerks and return to us. I have enjoyed all of your work and will truly miss reading the new ones(guess I'll have to reread what's here).
If you do return, leave the scoring off and just communicate with your fans and ignore the jerks.

docholladay

JRyter,

I agree with every ones plea to continue posting your stories. Don't let those assholes kill the pleasure for both you and the majority of your readers. If you quit completely those assholes win and everyone else loses. Don't let those assholes win.

I have read some of your stories and just downloaded the latest one to read later when I am not using this darn breathing machine while I try to respond to your blog post. Sadly you removed the option for a direct reply but that is your right after that abuse. Take a rest if need be but don't let the assholes win.

grandad_rufus

@Wheezer

Yes I think a simple I like this / I don't like this would be better, but a "like" only option works

grandad_rufus

@Wheezer

Yes I think a simple I like this / I don't like this would be better, but a "like" only option works

grandad_rufus

@noneck

The Man From Eagle Creek is another great story

G Younger

I agree that as a writer you have to have thick skin, but some of the stuff that has been sent lately is just cyber bullying. When you receive emails that call you an Fing Hack we have crossed a line.

I think you are starting to see from the recent posts Jay Cantrell, myself and others that it is becoming a problem. Granted 99% of the emails are either positive or provide criticism that is not offensive. It is the 1% that is starting to creep up that makes me wonder.

I've asked if some people could be blocked, but SOL won't do it. Unfortunately the emails come from SOL so you can't block them in my mail server.

As far as scores go ... yep. I don't see how to stop that. What I figure is it will balance out.

My fear is he will not be the last one to leave because of this.

Just my 2 cents worth.

G Younger

Replies:   docholladay
Duke_Mantee

Oh man, this is hard ... I read JRiter's blog, and I have to say this is a bad way to lose an author. Like jriter's granddad, I believe in the "If you don't have something nice to say ..." These so-called critics are either unhappy people who wish to spread their misery far and wide, or they are bullies who knowing they can't be held accountable attempt to tear down those with more talent than they have.

But I do have something to say ... There are stories I don't read, and there are stories I read and don't care for, but to say the story is no good or should have said this or shouldn't have said that -- Well, then I'm commenting on the story I want to read, not the story the author chose to write.

There are stories I read that make me laugh out loud, or get a lump in my throat, or pump my fist when the villain gets what's coming to him. I wish I could convey my thanks but unlike the author, words fail me. How to say "great job" to someone who showed me how it is to be on a ship in a hurricane or survive the apocalypse, get a second chance to build a better life ... or let me feel I know what it's like to fly a starship ... I don't have the words -- I have the feelings, I just can't express them.

Art is hard. Write a song, paint a picture tell a story all of them ... The artist has a vision and can make it come to life. And then to put that art out for the public to see ... I takes courage, maybe when you evoke emotion in others you have to expect reaction -- even Jealousy which is probably what JRyter is experiencing ...

JRyter doesn't express doubt in his talent which is good, the artist's creation is first and foremost to satisfy the artist ... How the great unwashed are affected is on us.

So to JRyter (who's work I've read and liked) and all the rest of the authors on SOL who gift us with their talent and hard work Thank you. I appreciate it. The greatest satisfaction I receive is reading a well told and well crafted tale. Well done, everyone. I hope you get the same fulfillment posting your stories ...

There may be several reasons writers retire, you graduate from college, you get married, you get divorced, you get out of prison, your job gets too demanding ... All things come to an end ... But to be hounded out by bullies should shame all of us that never take the time to say well done ...

So JRiter, "Eli Crow," "Eagle Creek," "Yuma," and others are great tales ... I enjoyed them and if you have more to write, I'll be here to read them. If not, thank you for all the work. I appreciate your efforts and I'm sorry both for the discomfort you feel from these attacks and for the lack of comfort I could have provided with a thank you ...

CHEERS!

sejintenej

I hope that my contributions show that I also condemn the writers who send such foul messages and force authors into silence. After my experiences with demon:local I wonder if it is not just two, maybe three miserable gits perhaps using several different names.

Grandad_Rufus wrote: I think a simple I like this / I don't like this would be better
OK BUT it would be far better to say why you don't like and from what one or two have written some authors would like to know why you do like their story. Just a thought

Replies:   Wheezer
richardshagrin
Updated:

I wonder if changing pen names might slow down the one bombers. I would be surprised if there are a lot of SOL readers who hate Westerns.

I am sorry when writers turn off scoring, it can be a guide to readers looking for a new story. Some writers concentrate on the number of downloads, that measures if somebody read the story. Its not as good as sales for other kinds of publishing, but it indicates interest in your work in a way that "votes" don't.

To the extent writers are exhibitionists they should be somewhat pleased people stop and look. Applause is good and negative reactions are bad, but a variety of reactions is pretty much a fact of life.

Replies:   docholladay  HSWilkinson
Penguintopia

To the extent writers are exhibitionists they should be somewhat pleased people stop and look. Applause is good and negative reactions are bad, but a variety of reactions is pretty much a fact of life.


As I stated in a recent blog post, the late, great Dale Earnhardt once said that he was happy if people cheered and happy if they booed. If they were quiet, it was time to quit.

Granted, not everyone can take the kind of abuse that was often heaped on Earnhardt (by yours truly, being a Bill Elliott fan), but I generally agree with him. I get my fair share of hate mail and give it the level of attention it richly deserves. :-)

That said, when I released some chapters of the next book early, my Yahoo! group exploded in visceral outrage at a chapter I figured was OK. By the time they read the one I expected them to freak out over, it was small potatoes, apparently.

docholladay

@G Younger

My fear is he will not be the last one to leave because of this.


I agree. That is why I said when they quit the assholes win. I for one as a reader hate to lose.

docholladay

@richardshagrin

I would be surprised if there are a lot of SOL readers who hate Westerns.


Kind of doubtful, Westerns have been a popular genre for over a hundred years. I don't think its lost its popularity, just here on the internet the destructive elements can destroy an artist/writer with words without repercussion. They have always been there I think. Just they have finally realized they can use words and threats to destroy those who tell stories or share their art work on the internet, without fear of reprisal (revenge).

HSWilkinson

@richardshagrin

I won't say a lot. But these few would burn Louis L'Amour in effigy. Me, I love Maestro L'Amour. So, I hope Mr. Ryter regroups and returns.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of SOL readers who hate Westerns.

zebra69347

There are some people dishing out low scores and badly worded comments. However, an author should take greater note of how many times a story has been downloaded. That will show how many people did not make any comment at all.

Ernest Bywater
Updated:

to paraphrase an old saying:

Those who can do, those who can't no matter what bitch and whine at those who can.

edit to add 'no matter what'

Wheezer

@sejintenej

some authors would like to know why you do like their story. Just a thought


That's what the e-mail comments are for.

Switch Blayde

I stopped caring about my scores long ago. I know I'm a better writer than the readers are critiquers.

I stopped caring about the 1-bombs long ago. I can't do anything about them and know they're not justified so why let them bother me? If you do, THEY win their vicious game.

I don't get hate emails. Or maybe I don't see them as hate. I've had people complain about something, such as not having the "rape" code when there was a rape. I simply respond with an explanation or something as simple as, "That's not the story I wrote."

Switch Blayde

SOL caters to readers. After all, they're the paying customers. But without authors you don't have stories, and without stories you don't have readers.

Some authors leave due to the advent of this thing called self-publishing. Others are leaving for JRiter's reasons. Throw in those who die and the number of good stories will dwindle.

Replies:   docholladay  REP
docholladay

@Switch Blayde

SOL caters to readers. After all, they're the paying customers. But without authors you don't have stories, and without stories you don't have readers.


I think its been a huge balancing act all along. Financial supporters have been needed all along since no one could afford to pay all the costs out of his or her own pocket.

The problem is with those who deliberately abuse the system which tries to encourage the writers and the readers to enjoy the results of the storytellers talent/gift.

sejintenej
Updated:

A simple question about stories which get a 1 or2 or even 3 vote.

Who in their right mind would read a story through which they consider so atrocious? IF they did read such a story right through in those conditions then their sanity has to be questioned.

If they gave such a low vote and they don't meet my version of insanity it means they didn't read the story through and are thus not qualified to vote on it.

I don't think I have ever given a vote under five - I merely deleted the file.

A possibility is for Lazeez to quietly and without notice amend the system so that all 1, 2 and 3 votes be simply ignored in all scoring and don't deduct from the 4 and/or 5 scoring votes, only the top scoring votes

(Dons flameproof overalls and hides)

Replies:   ustourist  Switch Blayde  joyR
ustourist

@sejintenej

There must be the occasional submission that is so poorly written and constructed that a sane person couldn't read it to the end, but where it is felt that a warning is needed to be given to other potential victims/readers. In that rare case a 1 or 2 is probably justified.
Having said that, I don't believe I have ever scored anything under a four, as those that are that bad normally drive me away.
I have also very rarely given a 10, but have noticed that some - very few - of the older scores seem to be obtained more by certain content than by quality, so only use scores as a general guide.

Switch Blayde

@sejintenej


Who in their right mind would read a story through which they consider so atrocious?


I used to not vote on a story if I hadn't read it through. I thought it unfair to the author. Maybe it got better. But then after hearing Lazeez complain about the scores being too high I realized I was doing the scoring system an injustice. So if I start reading a story and it's crap, I'll score it as such.

Saying that, I pretty much stopped scoring stories.

REP

@Switch Blayde

Throw in those who die and the number of good stories will dwindle.


Yes, we do lose established writers and their future stories. But I also noticed over the past week or two that a number of posters have identified themselves as new writers. They and others who get bit by the storytelling bug are the source of our future good stories.

geo1951

@graybyrd

That would be a step in the right direction, Another would be to ignore the IGNORANT ARSEHOLES and get on with what you and we all enjoy and come here for. You Guys have a talent I don't have, MAKE use of what GOD gave you. My download count is 33517 in just short of 10 years, I have never downgraded a story or bagged an Author IF a story doesn't grab me then so be it I move on to the next. I learnt a long time ago growing up with a bloody great Birthmark on my face "Get over it" Keep up the GREAT work ALL of you. MY all time Favourite story "The Private" seems to be dying sadly. Bye G

Replies:   madnige
madnige

@geo1951

I have never downgraded a story or bagged an Author IF a story doesn't grab me then so be it I move on to the next.


...and this is why Lazeez has to postprocess the averaged raw scores - people not voting down stories they don't find attractive distorts the scores up, so there's less difference in scores between good and very good. Mind, I'm also guity of this scoring pattern, I've only about twice scored a story less than 6, and one of those was a general author-request for read-and-feedback, and I also sent feedback saying what I didn't like (and that without the request I'd have abandoned the story unscored). However, I also would like to extend my thanks to all the authors here.

joyR

@sejintenej

Who in their right mind would read a story through which they consider so atrocious?


Guilty. Because every once in a while I stumble across a story that whilst deserving/possessing a very low score, is either "so bad it's good" or is "hilariously bad", or even simply because whilst borderline illiterate, the author has presented a storyline or character that is unique.

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej

@joyR

every once in a while I stumble across a story that whilst deserving/possessing a very low score, is either "so bad it's good" or is "hilariously bad", or even simply because whilst borderline illiterate, the author has presented a storyline or character that is unique.

So I hope you give it just a few net points having given decent points for the hilarity tempered by deductions for speeeeeeling and grammer

Replies:   joyR
joyR

@sejintenej

So I hope you give it just a few net points having given decent points for the hilarity tempered by deductions for speeeeeeling and grammer


Actually I don't always give 'just a few'. After all, voting is subjective and I'm reading to be entertained, so on occasion it's 'a lot'. Atrocious spelling and grammar are exceedingly annoying to me, so a story that holds my attention despite these faults deserves high marks.

dallasl

I have never posted anything before. I can't write. But I usually vote a storie when i finsh it. I really appreciate the stories all the author's post here. And jriter i have liked all yours that ive read so far. Please don't let the loud minority stop you. A lot of us like a good storie!

Daydreamz

The system is a bit of a troll's toolkit, really. I guess it must have started out from seeking precision, and a sense of fairness, balancing the two ends of the scale. Then the problem of voters using the negative extreme was addressed with the algorithm, and now the 5% most extremes are hidden too.

But a 1 or 3 brings into play the next-lowest score, like a 5, so it's not really eliminated, and since all the scores are adjusted the same way the score relative to other stories is affected just the same. It's an opportunity to be mean. The description for a 1 is mean, in fact: "You call this a story?" is quite insulting, when the author has at least had a go.

The comments don't help either, because they're anonymous even if there's a reply email, and the commenter holds the power of the 1-bomb over all your stories so it's rather one-sided. I think inline comments linked to an account that has a reputation would be better.

Clearly Lazeez has made a massive investment in the current system. Fact is though that, as he's explained, many writers react disproportionately to a negative. And I would rather have a 1 than a 5, so hiding 1's doesn't work for me at all.

I much prefer the Wattpad model - you get a vote from a read or you don't. On each chapter, so you get loads!!! :) Everyone can see what everyone else has recommended and said. It's a great way of finding stories - seeing what others who liked the current one have also liked - and all members have a reputation to husband.

There's a lot of feelgood about the whole environment. The SOL model is more sophisticated in some ways, but it gives readers the opportunity to be negative, and sadly that means a few of them will take it.

Also, while I'm expounding, I don't find the top end of the scale works for finding a story. I don't notice any trend between about 6 all the way up to 9.9. A 6.6 is already 'Very good', and then it tends to be fans of the exact genre who vote higher.

Well, it's a very tricky subject I know. All scoring systems produce very similar results, in practice, so personally I'd go for feelgood. I am biased tho, of course, being a sensitive flower of a writer :)

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Daydreamz

Fact is though that, as he's explained, many writers react disproportionately to a negative.


It would be fairer to say some writers instead of many writers because there aren't that many who dislike the system. However, the key to the whole thing is SoL is designed for readers and the scoring system is to assist the readers in selecting a story, while Wattpad is designed for the writers and not the readers. Two different end products require two different solutions.

Like most writers i look at the downloads and feedback email to see how a story is received, and only look at the scores when we have discussions like this. Then I look at the scores to help with giving an explanation. because the relativity between authors is the same, it really becomes irrelevant what system is used.

Replies:   Daydreamz  docholladay
Daydreamz

@Ernest Bywater

the key to the whole thing is SoL is designed for readers and the scoring system is to assist the readers in selecting a story, while Wattpad is designed for the writers and not the readers.

I'd say the opposite, if anything, gotta say. Wattpad is full of writers who get no reads at all (though once a story takes off it's very positive because there are no negative options as I say). The readers on the other hand have a great time.

I don't want to get too far into the differences because obviously WP is so much bigger. But as a reader the search system here doesn't work very well. A high score doesn't mean a good story, and the tags are often about things that are peripheral, or are contradictory. I've revised my tags more than once, having misinterpreted or missed them. I'd get on much better with a system that uses recommendations more.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
docholladay

@Ernest Bywater

Like most writers i look at the downloads


As a reader I definitely look at the download totals before the scores and sometimes I will look at reviews.

Scores are the last thing I check to decide on what to read, but heck I have always said I am different. So my methods of deciding what to read are probably different as well.

Replies:   Daydreamz
Ernest Bywater

@Daydreamz

I notice Wattpad had to upload a huge swag of Guttenberg material when it started up to get anyone interested, while Sol started with copyrighted material instead of riding someone else's coattails. However, the big thing against Wattpad is its terms of service.

I keep away from any site with the following in their terms of service:

C. For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your User Submissions. However, by submitting User Submissions to Wattpad.com, you hereby grant Wattpad.com a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the Wattpad.com Website. You also hereby grant each user of the Wattpad.com Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website. You understand and agree, however, that Wattpad.com may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of User Submissions that have been removed or deleted.

Which gives them the right to sell on your submission anywhere in the world, and they have the legal right to keep the material on display despite you wanting to remove it for any reason.

Also, Wattpad is much more restrictive of what can be posted there than SoL is.

Replies:   Daydreamz
Daydreamz

@docholladay

As a reader I definitely look at the download totals before the scores and sometimes I will look at reviews.

Scores are the last thing I check to decide on what to read

My highest-scoring story has almost the lowest number of downloads! I've been assuming that the no of downloads is about the title and description, in that once a reader has clicked on it that's recorded as a download.

Daydreamz

@Ernest Bywater

Which gives them the right to sell on your submission anywhere in the world, and they have the legal right to keep the material on display despite you wanting to remove it for any reason.

Also, Wattpad is much more restrictive of what can be posted there than SoL is.

Oh I'm not trying to draw odious comparisons in a general way, just the voting and commenting systems, and the point about JRyter and some others getting fed up of the negative votes and comments.

I'm basically floating the question of whether the scale of ratings works - whether it has more downside than upside, and whether comments linked to a member's profile and inline and public would both keep them civil and be a useful search tool.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Daydreamz


Oh I'm not trying to draw odious comparisons in a general way, just the voting and commenting systems,


I was explaining why I don't know much about Wattpad because of their terms allow them to make money off your work without your approval.

That has to bias how they set up the rest of the site, because they're after money from it in many ways.

edit to add: SoL makes it's money from paying readers. While Wattpad makes it's money in other ways that are less clear to the users.

Replies:   Daydreamz
Daydreamz

@Ernest Bywater

Ah ok. There are some things they do well, I think.

Crumbly Writer

One of the keys, to any voting or comment system, is accountability. Using a pseudonym is good, in theory, but it promotes Trollish behavior. The best sites require people to sign in with the actual names, whether they reply using pseudonyms or not. LinkedIn is a trustworthy site, because everyone there knows their future boss is likely to observe their actions (everyone uses their real names), having, they yanked their support for their user groups and most authors have abandoned it as a forum site.

Amazon, while not great, at least has an 'authorized purchase' disclaimer, though anyone who's ever purchased anything can score anything they want, whether they've ever used it or not. There was a mini-scandal years ago, when it was discovered certain authors were downvoting every story competing with their. Amazon also had extensive problems with 'purchased reviews'. They've been struggling with it for years, with no sign it's getting any better. Worst of all, rather than going after those generating the bogus reviews, they only punish the authors desperate for some way of garnering attention to their works. :( There are also several (no clue how many) reviewers on Amazon who rate everything with a single star, and Amazon refuses to get 'involved' by cracking down on the abusive behavior.

REP

A story scoring system can be used by a reader in several ways for a number of purposes. It can also be used by a writer in several ways. Unfortunately, the way a specific reader uses the system can create a conflict with the way the writer uses the system.

A reader can give a story a max/min rating because they like/dislike the story, the writer, the genre, or any combination of the three. There are also other reasons liking/disliking a story. The bottom line is that while we writers cannot control what score a reader might give a story, we are in the driver's seat.

When I, as a writer, configure my writer's account, I have the option of selecting between No Feedback Mail Forms and Feedback is Desired. I have the option of choosing between Accept Anonymous Email and Refuse Anonymous Email. When I submit a story for posting, I can enable or disable voting. If readers are sending me email directly using my posted email address, I can configure my writer account to not provide the readers with an email address.

So as writers, we have choices. If the voting results upset us, we can disable voting. If feedback via Mail Forms upset us, we can disable SOL's Feedback Form feature. If you get undesirable feedback directly from a reader, configure your writer's account to not provide your readers with an email address. Alternatively, you can configure your email account (i.e. Outlook, Yahoo, etc.) to just delete that sender's email.If you as a writer choose to take no action, then deal with what you get.

Yes, it is angering to get feedback from a Troll. Yes, it is angering to be 1-bombed. But, if you have to comment on that feedback/score in the Forum, keep your remarks focused on what was said/scored, and avoid comments about the system that you configured to allow readers to give you that score/feedback.

I will make one additional observation before I get off of my soapbox.The scoring system used to give a story an overall rating does not matter. As long as the system's algorithm provides a differential between overall ratings assigned to the stories and the same algorithm is used for all stories, we writers have a way of judging the merits of our work. Yes, I know the scoring system is not perfect, but no scoring system is perfect.

Thank you.

Replies:   docholladay  Daydreamz
docholladay
Updated:

@REP


So as writers, we have choices. If the voting results upset us, we can disable voting. If feedback via Mail Forms upset us, we can disable SOL's Feedback Form feature. If you get undesirable feedback directly from a reader, configure your writer's account to not provide your readers with an email address. Alternatively, you can configure your email account (i.e. Outlook, Yahoo, etc.) to just delete that sender's email.If you as a writer choose to take no action, then deal with what you get.


I have never had an email account/program where I could not block an individual sender's email by either name, address or both. I can set it to just automatically delete email from particular addresses so I never see it either in any form. The sender doesn't even get notified of the blockage.

edited to add: the email is not bounced back to the sender.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@docholladay

Lets hope the one-bombers don't find the forum.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay
Updated:

@richardshagrin

Probably too much trouble for them. Too many here who would just love to give them a taste of what they like to dish out. I think most of the readers not to mention writers and editors here, would just love to have a little pay back.

edited to add: Also they can't hide their logon name. I think most want to remain in the dark.

Daydreamz

@REP

Yes, it is angering to get feedback from a Troll. Yes, it is angering to be 1-bombed. But, if you have to comment on that feedback/score in the Forum, keep your remarks focused on what was said/scored, and avoid comments about the system that you configured to allow readers to give you that score/feedback.

There's a lot more to a system than configuring it with a small number of sledgehammer options. Why do you think nobody should comment on the system?

Replies:   REP
REP

@Daydreamz

I like getting storing data on my stories.

I don't think Lazeez objects to our remarks about a score or someone's feedback comment for it is mostly us blowing off steam.

However, he seems to be fed up with trying to tweak the scoring system to please all of us. He made it clear that if we writers continued to grip about the scoring system he would delete it.

Ernest Bywater

@REP

He made it clear that if we writers continued to grip about the scoring system he would delete it.


I seriously doubt he was talking about deleting the scoring system itself, just deleting the author access to the data used to calculate the score. The theory being: if we don't see the data we have less to complain about.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Ernest Bywater

You are right. I was thinking of not getting the results and misstated my thoughts.

Daydreamz

@REP

However, he seems to be fed up with trying to tweak the scoring system to please all of us. He made it clear that if we writers continued to grip about the scoring system he would delete it.

I had the impression Lazeez is keen to have the scoring system serve the writers as well as the readers. I doubt he resents feedback and suggestions, as long as they're offered respectfully and with a bit of thought behind them. It's the same with feedback on our stories, after all, and this is a forum. But he can always say, of course.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Daydreamz

I doubt he resents feedback and suggestions, as long as they're offered respectfully and with a bit of thought behind them.


Generally, this is true. However, over the years he's received a lot of abuse from many authors about the scoring system and is fed up with it. After the last major change he declared That's it no more changes to how it works. The only change he's made since then is how much of the raw information is made available to the authors.

Replies:   Daydreamz
Daydreamz

@Ernest Bywater

Well it's not only the scoring but also the comments that have driven JRyter away, as I understand it. He seems to have been at the sensitive end of the scale, but anyway it's something to think about IMO. Lazeez can ignore me easily enough, or he might decide to review the two together, who knows. Nothing is forever, especially in a website, and one of the great things about SOL is that he's clearly always working on it.

My point anyway is that given that some of us writers are soooo delicate (tho some of us aren't of course) then having a private comments system AND a 1-bomb facility is a bit of a troll's toolkit :).

It gives so much power to the reader, and there are always a few who'll take advantage to victimise a writer, to make themselves feel clever, or whatever.

Then it overlaps into the search facility and how well that works in practice. Looking at my reads I'd say not as well as one might think, in that once a story is off the front pages its download rate falls off a cliff. Also there's no correlation between the score and the download rate, within 7.x at least.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Daydreamz

My point anyway is that given that some of us writers are soooo delicate (tho some of us aren't of course) then having a private comments system AND a 1-bomb facility is a bit of a troll's toolkit :).

It gives so much power to the reader, and there are always a few who'll take advantage to victimise a writer, to make themselves feel clever, or whatever.

It makes sense being able to cut off an abuse email barrage, but I've never encountered this. While 1-bombs are rare (the 5% rules seems to eliminate most of their influence), I haven't heard of anyone inundating authors with harrassing emails. They might write pointed responses, where they press their points, but generally, once you tell them you disagree with their opinion and won't change your mind, they leave you alone. A few might turn to the 1-bomb option, but there aren't enough to amount to much influence.

Thus, after all these long discussion, I still see it as a non-issue. More than anything else, I want to preserve the SOL response system, as it's one of SOL's strongest features for both authors and readers. One which isn't really duplicated anywhere else. So trying to 'correct' a non-existent problem might end up hampering the site's strongest encouragement system.

In short, it's better to avoid doing harm, than to eliminate a low-frequency problem. I'm perfectly happy with Lazeez's solution, even though I prefer seeing the individual scores, as my 1-bombers helped alert me to certain issues in the story (when readers unexpectedly respond to a story issue).

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