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Writing Challenge

Crumbly Writer

I'd discussed before how I'd always been averse to reading gay porn until I wrote my own, in which case it almost magically stopped bugging me. I described it as 'seeing the act as tab p into hole a', which some objected to, but it was really one of seeing the relationship independently of the physical components.

Given that as my basis, I've got a writing challenge, for those willing to accept it. Let's see if all the straight writers can actually write a hot gay sex scene, and then see whether it changes their perceptions of gay porn or not.

If several of us offer a short gay story (even a single chapter), and compare our results, we can measure/guestimate how bothered we are by it both before and after the experiment, plus what effect individual authors have. I'm curious whether my experience of writing a book in my brother's honor is transferable to others or not.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Let's see if all the straight writers can actually write a hot gay sex scene, and then see whether it changes their perceptions of gay porn or not.


I already did. It was most of a chapter in my novel Sexual Awakening. I wrote it for woman reading erotic romance. When I decided to self-pub and my target audience changed, I took all the explicit gay sex out.

Writing it did not change my perception of gay porn.

EDITED: I also wrote mm sex scenes in short stories. I've mentioned my story "The Hitchhiker," but I also wrote another kind of mm sex scene — to humiliate a guy. Not gay porn, but MM.

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btw, Lazeez, I LOVE the gray boxes to add the HTML tags. Just love it. Maybe you can add one to put in a bolded EDIT: A lot of us seem to be doing that manually.

richardshagrin

Perhaps a definition of "gay sex" might help the challenge. Is Lesbian activity considered "gay sex"? How about MMF or other activity involving more than one male and one or more females? A very few individuals are both sexes or used to be one sex and are now another. Or think of themselves as the opposite sex from what their apparatus indicates. Is a lesbian domme wearing a strap-on dildo entering the anus of a submissive male gay sex? If the domme is female now but started out as male? I don't recommend any of the strange cases as story threads, but gay sex might even be activity where one or more of the participants are "happy" in the old definition of gay. Like the song about Gay Caballeros.

Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

Perhaps a definition of "gay sex" might help the challenge. Is Lesbian activity considered "gay sex"?

Nope! ALL straight men either read or write lesbian sex scenes, so it's no big deal, whereas most straight men have serious issues reading gay sex scenes, even if they can get through a story about gay characters. I've been around the gay community for most of my life, experimented in my youth, but still had issues reading/editing others stories until writing the one book completely changed my perception.

In general, lesbians using strap-ons is more a male fantasy than a lesbian reality. In fact, the majority of 'strap-on' porn features women screwing guys in the ass, rather than woman-on-woman strap-on sex.

The same is true of MMF, because quite a few straight writers will write such scenes strictly from a straight perspective (ex: "We have fun, but we never crossed swords!").

Trans sex is more of a stretch, but again, most straight writers approach it as M/F sex with a surprise ending--never really dealing with the full act, rather than describing the actual trans experience. (Note: I had less difficulty with trans tales than I did gay porn.)

Drag or transvestite is closer, as it often focuses on two men trying to temporarily pass as women having sex, and thus actually describes gay sex.

By the way, most gay males I know are perfectly happy, at least since the 1920s when the suicide rates dropped significantly (gay porn before that was a real horror-fest of depression!). A couple (or a group) of gay gays isn't unusual or out of bounds, and makes for cute phrasings.

Ernest Bywater

There's an interest Video Blog on the Lesbian stereotypes in movies etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl22caUj-oo

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

I'd discussed before how I'd always been averse to reading gay porn until I wrote my own, in which case it almost magically stopped bugging me.


I've read stories with both M/M and M/F sex in them. I don't categorically avoid all stories with M/M sex, just the ones that are exclusively or primarily M/M.

I wouldn't say it bother's me so much as it doesn't interest me.

I'll read a story with some M/M sex as long as there is something else to draw my interest.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
REP

@Crumbly Writer

Let's see if all the straight writers can actually write a hot gay sex scene, and then see whether it changes their perceptions of gay porn or not.


Seems to me that you are issuing the challenge assuming that all straight men have a negative opinion of gay sex. Some of us do, and others don't.

For those of us who have no objection to gay sex, writing a MM story would have little or no impact on our opinion of gay sex.

richardshagrin

My theory is that there about as many men as there are women. I am in favor of lots of gay sex, it leaves more women for me. Of course lesbian love reduces the number of women available for heterosexual activity, so I need to encourage far more gay than lesbian activity to keep the odds in my favor.

Ross at Play
Updated:

@richardshagrin


Perhaps a definition of "gay sex" might help the challenge. Is Lesbian activity considered "gay sex"?


I think CW will define that as MM sex, but his suggested experiment might be applied more widely.

To CW: Is your intention to suggest writing about your personal squirk(s) [those based upon prejudices] to test whether that changes you, or your perceptions?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

Maybe that was my issue. Despite being on the fringes of the gay culture for so long, I found I had difficulty editing gay author's sex scenes, which I only overcame when I was forced to write my own (a story which required me to get into the gay character's heads).

My resistance was probably my refusal to admit that I'm not, at least partially, a part of that lifestyle. Hell, everything thinks the same way, even if we have slightly different desires. My uneasiness was likely a last-ditch effort to declare myself safely distinct from my gay brothers and lesbian sisters.

I wouldn't say it bother's me so much as it doesn't interest me.

I'll read a story with some M/M sex as long as there is something else to draw my interest.

Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

To CW: Is your intention to suggest writing about your personal squirk(s) [those based upon prejudices] to test whether that changes you, or your perceptions?

As usual, someone else typically better expresses my own thoughts than I do (which is why it takes me so long to revise my own words).

Yep, that was my point. For most of us, lesbian sex is more an attraction than a squick, and even when we write about trans characters, we tend to see them as straight characters with a twist rather than a separate sexual being, so we focus on what we relate to rather than our own issues. I suspect, many people 1-bomb gay stories because it's so difficult for us to acknowledge that we're each capable of being somewhat gay ourselves (finding enjoyment in reading about male-on-male sex). If you read gay porn, you need to relate to the characters, even if you never engage in gay sex yourself.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


it's so difficult for us to acknowledge that we're each capable of being somewhat gay ourselves


No! Not true! Speaker for yourself, not me.

I certainly cannot throw stones at anyone else's attractions, but not that one - not when I am myself.

There was ONE MOMENT in my life I considered it - considered, not acted. I decided the NEXT DAY I would never take LSD again. I never did, even though I descended into alcoholism and drug addiction for another 10 years, taking whatever drugs I could find at times.

You are simply wrong in assuming EVERYONE else must be at least a tiny bit 'bi', or whatever.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
richardshagrin

I am under the impression that sexual orientation is a continuum with only interested in the opposite sex at one end and only interested in the same sex at the other. Which is why people where there are no members of the opposite sex (or only members of the opposite sex for homosexuals) can accept sexual activity they normally would not. In prison, for example. The vast majority are at least a little bisexual, although most deny any slight tendency to be other than orthodox.

Lets really light up the switchboard, speaking of Orthodox, was Jesus "straight"? He associated almost exclusively with men, there is no indication he ever had a wife or girlfriend, Except for his Mother, Mary, there are almost no women identified as close associates. He was over 30 and did not have any children which was fairly unusual for that period, without "Social Security" your method of providing for your old age was to have children to support you.

Flaming letters expected. Where was Jesus in the Gay/Straight continuum?

Switch Blayde

@richardshagrin

there is no indication he ever had a wife


I guess you didn't read The Da Vinci Code

Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

there is no indication he ever had a wife or girlfriend


Sorry, but that information is in the Bible, you just have to understand the society involved. To them it was so obvious it wasn't stated.

Jesus started his wanderings as a Teacher a defined level of knowledge of the Torah, but not a Rabbi. At that time you had to be married to be a Rabbi. When Jesus entered Jerusalem they called him Rabbi, because he had been accepted as one and made a Rabbi - thus he had to have been married. A secondary marker, is a woman could not travel with a man unless she was a relative, slave, or servant. Mary Magdalene was not a slave, or a servant, or a blood relative. Also, only wives, mothers, or sisters were allowed to handle the deceased, and she was involved in preparing the body of Jesus for burial. Makes it kind of obvious she was his wife.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

Sorry, but that information is in the Bible, you just have to understand the society involved. To them it was so obvious it wasn't stated.


Actually, it is stated directly if you know where to look.

It's important to understand how the Bible came about. It wasn't written as a single book. And it wasn't until the latter part of the first millennium that the Bible was ever published as a single bound book.

Prior to that there were lists of individual books to be studied that these lists were called bibles. There were many versions and some included works that the church leadership considered heretical.

A council was formed to establish an official bible. The council decided a set of criteria One of those criteria is that a given work had to be written as religious witness, rather than being merely biographical.

There were some books left out of the official bible that the church leaders thought contained useful teachings even if they weren't "church doctrine".

Those books became known as the Apocrypha. Some Catholic Church Bibles include the Apocrypha between the Old and New testaments.

At least two of the books of the Apocrypha directly mention the marriage between Mary Magdalene an Jesus. In point of fact, per the Apocrypha, they had children.

Other books of the Aporcrypha cover the so called "missing years" and mention that Mary and Joseph had other children.

There are some versions of the Holy Grail myth that posit that the Grail is not the chalice from the last supper, but rather the blood line of Jesus, his descendants on Earth.

There are even some who claim that the royal hoses of Europe had ties to that divine bloodline.

Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

No! Not true! Speaker for yourself, not me.

I didn't mean that everyone IS gay, but that, in order to read about gay characters, they have to imagine themselves in the characters' heads. That explains why so many people 1-bomb gay stories, they refuse to put themselves into that situation. While men don't mind reading about lesbians, or women about gay men, they don't have the same difficulty in identifying with the characters.

By the way, although most people refer to an older guestimate about 15% of the population being homosexual, most recent figures place the number around only 5 to 7% (for the 'exclusively homosexual', at least). The number of exclusively straight is MUCH, much higher. So no, I'm in no way claiming the majority of readers are gay.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@richardshagrin


Lets really light up the switchboard, speaking of Orthodox, was Jesus "straight"?


I think, over the past 10 to 20 years, most non-relgiously affiliated 'experts' now assume that Mary Madoline was not only Jesus' main apostle, but also his wife (common-law, if nothing else). There was also a "Book of Mary", written shortly after Jesus's death, but the Catholic church ensured that none survived. However, no one associated with Christianity (at least in an official position) would agree with that supposition.

EDIT: What Ernest says.

Ross at Play

@Crumbly Writer

I didn't mean...

Your clarification is fine with me.
I might have understood your meaning better if you "finding enjoyment..." was not enclosed in parentheses.
:-)

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