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Windows 10

Switch Blayde

Tomorrow is July 29 (already there for you Australians). That's the last day of the free Windows 10 upgrade. So if we make it through tomorrow, I guess Microsoft won't automatically update to Windows 10.

garymrssn

I wouldn't bet on it.

mimauk

I use win7 - I made a disc image backup of the Win7 - upgraded to Win10 tried it for half a day and didn't like it so made a disc image back up of the Win10 system and then went back to Win7 from the image back up. I've kept the Win10 image in case I ever have to use it in the future.

You can make the image backups using the Control Panel - you don't have to buy any extra software.

graybyrd

How to repair Windows 10 damage to your system:

1. Back up all personal documents
2. Wipe drive
3. Install Linux
4. Install Libre Office
5. Install Calibre

Write with Libre Office; add file to Calibre; upload using web browser (included) to publishing site. Back up manuscript files.

Problem solved. Total cost? $0.0
Future upgrade/patch hassles? Zero

--OR--

Be a masochist; stick with Windows. Relish the abuse & pain. Total cost? $100's or $1,000's, depending.

Or stick with 7; disable all updates. Be a pariah.

Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

Write with Libre Office; add file to Calibre; upload using web browser (included) to publishing site. Back up manuscript files.

Problem solved. Total cost? $0.0
Future upgrade/patch hassles? Zero

--OR--

Be a masochist; stick with Windows. Relish the abuse & pain. Total cost? $100's or $1,000's, depending.

Or stick with 7; disable all updates. Be a pariah.

I've been conflicted over this for some time. I've given up on ever upgrading any M$ product, but my current Win 7 desktop is so stable, I'm not yet willing to change it. After multiple Windows laptops got infected corrupted, I finally purchased the much more expensive Mac laptop. It costs a fortune, but it a great system. Unfortunately, the Office software I'm used to using doesn't work the same way (i.e. the search and replace features don't work comparably due to system differences).

On the other hand, switching to Linux would be easier, but Linux isn't known for innovation, so you're unlikely to discover any new breakthrough products after switching, and new upgrades to existing products take a longer time making their way to the Linux products. :(

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

How to repair Windows 10 damage to your system:

1. Back up all personal documents
2. Wipe drive
3. Install Linux
4. Install Libre Office
5. Install Calibre


My next computer will be a Mac.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

My next computer will be a Mac.

I've got to admit, I love their 5k large screen displays. They're gorgeous and almost worth the price differential alone. Unfortunately, it takes me much longer to review editor suggestions on my Mac than it does on Windows 7!!! That's an OS limitation, since the search function doesn't work between different windows in the same application. :(

graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

On the other hand, switching to Linux would be easier, but Linux isn't known for innovation, so you're unlikely to discover any new breakthrough products after switching, and new upgrades to existing products take a longer time making their way to the Linux products. :(


Horses for courses. You can have innovation, or stability, or ... whatever. Your choice. My preference for several years has been a variant of Debian linux, "stable," which means nothing is updated until well tested. There are "testing" and "unstable" versions, for more cutting edge users.

With "stable," programs are slow to update; but in the case of popular programs such as Libre Office and Calibre, the author's websites offer "latest version" downloads, so I do install those over the versions in my Linux repository.

Besides which, writing and authoring doesn't really require the bleeding edge, latest & greatest version of anything, does it? What price Windows, when what you want is stability, security, and reliable performance? Sure, Windows 7 is nice--I have Win7 on a Lenovo laptop. But I've had to download and run several scripts to defeat the Microsoft "Free Offer" malware implants for forced download & upgrade to Win10, along with removing several "telemetry" and "spyware" patches that Microsoft installed under the guise of "important security patches."

I don't know about you guys, but when a seller deceives me, violates my trust, and invades my personal workspace, I soon distrust and avoid that seller.

Mac is great; I also have an early Mac setup with OSX "Tiger" and all the software needed for a total authoring and publishing suite. Of my three systems, this one is the best and serves as my primary workstation. But, that said, Mac moved on and switched their focus, and I jumped off the upgrade treadmill. When what you have works perfectly, why spend big sums of $$ for something new & shiny that doesn't work any better.

Linux works just great, with great apps. If one version doesn't float your boat, try another that does. Basically, though, most all the programs are the same from distro to distro, so all you're switching is some developer's idea of the best user interface.

It is nice to have choice; except for Microsoft. They've removed all choice and imposed a 'lockstep' regimen on their customer base. They purposely did serious damage to my legally-licensed Windows 7 system, and I'm mad as hell and won't play their games anymore. Thus, Linux! Feed the Penguin! (grin)

Capt Zapp

@graybyrd

3. Install Linux
4. Install Libre Office
5. Install Calibre

Write with Libre Office; add file to Calibre; upload using web browser (included) to publishing site. Back up manuscript files.

Problem solved. Total cost? $0.0
Future upgrade/patch hassles? Zero


For all the Linux users, Which version do you recommend? I have an older laptop I installed Ubuntu and when I went to upgrade to the latest version I had major problems. I may have done something wrong, but I'm not certain. I have seen references to Debian and others.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  graybyrd
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

Linux isn't known for innovation


Funny you should say that, except for the weirdness of small screen touchscreen for desktops all the major changes MS have instituted over the last 15 years have been follow changes of things done in Unix and Linux. The only major difference being how much easier they are to turn off in Linux if you don't like them.

Ernest Bywater

@Capt Zapp

Which version do you recommend


Debian is one of the best major variants, and has a number of downstream variations based on Debian. Ubuntu is one of the better known Debian variations. For some years I've been recommending Zorin Linux to a lot of people because it's based on Ubuntu but includes extra graphics user interfaces to look like some versions of Windows. I've a few older clients who love their Windows Z because it boots faster and they don't have to deal with reboots every time they get an update.

http://zorinos.com/index.html

Replies:   Capt Zapp
graybyrd

@Capt Zapp

Which version? Most of the InfoTech professionals posting on theregister.co.uk say 'Linux Mint' almost as an instinctive reaction. It's the most popular of all the Ubuntu versions, according to distrowatch.com. My personal favorite has been a variant of Debian linux, called solydx. For the 32-bit version, go to "solydxk.com/downloads/community-editions/" Both my wife (she's NOT a PC nerd!) and I have used that version for several years now. She's very happy... it works and stays out of the way. It's like a refrigerator or stove in that regard. It just works, and doesn't complain.

For an older PC, choose the XFCE desktop version (solydX) rather than the KDE (solydK) version. XFCE runs faster and lighter on older gear.

As for updating & upgrading, solydxk comes with a nice updater down on the tool bar. Sometimes it will seem to 'hang' after an update; so instead, I use the dead-simple terminal command line: (only for Debian & solydxk)

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Enter that, hit return, and sit back & watch the wheels spin. (be sure to remember the system user password you set when you install the system... you'll need it to make system changes with 'sudo').

Hope this helps.

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@Ernest Bywater

Thanks EB. Going to download it and give it a try along with Solyd which graybyrd recommended and see which I like better.

(I wonder which will work better on my antique Pentium Pro lappy) :)

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Capt Zapp

@graybyrd

Thanks graybyrd. Going to download it and give it a try along with Zorin which EB recommended and see which I like better.

Ernest Bywater

@Capt Zapp

see which I like better.


this is a good resource on where things are with Linux and Unix

http://distrowatch.com/

also, if your hardware is 64 bit, you are better off using a 64 bit system.

xubuntu uses the xfce interface as well

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=xubuntu

http://xubuntu.org/

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@Ernest Bywater

this is a good resource on where things are with Linux and Unix


Awesome. Thanks EB. won't be downloading much now. I have less than 1GB left until the 10th.

QM

Use windows 10, no issues, no problems.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  graybyrd
Ernest Bywater

@QM

Use windows 10, no issues, no problems.


you forgot to add, no money in the bank after buying all new software to go with it.

Replies:   QM
graybyrd

@QM

Use windows 10, no issues, no problems.


For 'giggles & snorts' go to theregister.co.uk website and read the comments (sometimes a hundred or more) at the end of each article dealing with 'yet another' MS action concerning Windows 10. These guys are IT professionals, mostly, dealing with hundreds and thousands of PC's for their employers. Also, they do 'favors' for family and friends when begged to fix a borked home PC.

The hatred for MS and Win10 is so hot as to melt yer cable modem, Sparky. And it will change your mind about "no issues, no problems" in one big hurry. If you truly got no issues, no problems, count yer blessings. But never forget, MS got you by the mandatory internet connection... and today's bliss may well be tomorrow's piss.

Replies:   Grant  Ross at Play
Grant

@graybyrd

The hatred for MS and Win10 is so hot as to melt yer cable modem, Sparky. And it will change your mind about "no issues, no problems" in one big hurry. If you truly got no issues, no problems, count yer blessings.

Same as Win3.x to Win9x, Win9x to Win XP to Win XP to Vista, Vista to Win7, Win7 to Win8, Win8 to Win10.

There are significant issues relating to the way M$ has pushed the upgrade, and likewise relating to some of Win10s features, and their telemetry (which brings it in to line with current phones & tablets & a lesser extent iOS).
But as far as actually working is concerned, it's better than Win7 which is what i was using before.

Ross at Play

@Crumbly Writer

but Linux isn't known for innovation

You make innovation sound like a good thing. For most it's not. Stable, tested software which does what I expect is what I'm looking for, and apparently a lot of others too who have objections to Windows-10.

Ernest Bywater

@Grant

it's better than Win7 which is what i was using before.


Which is damn close to: "My head feels great now I only hit it against the wall once every five minutes instead of every minute."

Replies:   Grant
Ross at Play

@graybyrd

If you truly got no issues, no problems, count yer blessings...and today's bliss may well be tomorrow's piss

... or a repeat of Windows-8. That was the biggest FU ever. I notice nobody here suggests reverting to that instead of W-7.
I am stuck with W-10 because where I live it's impossible to get support for anything else. I actually prefer W-10 to W-7, but after W-8 I will distrust MS forever. I'd swap to Linux in a flash if external circumstances allowed.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Grant
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


Which is damn close to: "My head feels great now I only hit it against the wall once every five minutes instead of every minute."


That was going to Win3.11

Win98SE was one of the biggest improvements, although graphics drivers tended to bring it down in a screaming heap. If you had one that worked, you stuck with it & there were very few issues.

WinXP was mostly tolerant of poor graphics drivers, unfortunately it didn't matter how much RAM it had, it couldn't make much use of more than 1GB.

Vista was big improvement over XP (no matter how much the haters might belly ache about it) as when you gave it more RAM & it would make use of it. Win7 wasn't really any different to Vista, it's just that the haters didn't hate it like they did Vista.

Win8 was better than 7, unfortunately they screwed up the user interface. Desktops aren't tablets. Win8.1 partially improved things.

Win10 makes use of as much RAM as you give it, you've got a desktop again & it it's got a much improved display driver model & improved storage I/O.

It's biggest drawback IMHO is that it still retains too much phone/tablet interfaces.

It's just a shame M$ have been such arseholes over how they've pushed it out, and forced updates on people (when often people need the functionality of an older driver as the new driver depreciated something they need).

But as operating systems go, it is a very good one, regardless of what others might say.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Grant

But as operating systems go, it is a very good one, regardless of what others might say.


Grant, it matters not how good or bad the underlying OS is, if they stick in totally shit GUI and don't give you any decent way to change it to something you can use - Vista, and then Win 8 had that big time, Win 10 has some similar issues.

However, my biggest issue for the last decade is how they keep making unneeded changes just to push you into buying the latest version of their other software by making the new OS unable to work properly with the earlier versions of their other software. That's just extortion.

graybyrd

It's probable that we've exhausted our audience with this topic, but I've one more note to add:

Windows 7 is an important OS on my Lenovo lappie; it runs several important apps that WON'T run under WINE for Linux, nor is there an acceptable Linux alternative program. So, Win7 must stay.

EXCEPT, Microsoft has viciously and deceptively attacked my legal & validated Win7 installation. I mean those two words quite seriously and plainly: "viciously" and "deceptively." Here's why:

We've all been scared witless concerning WinXP as being a malware trap, an attack vector, and as dangerous as HIV to inflict on innocent internet users. To use WinXP these days is equivalent to walking through a children's ward coughing up AIDs infected sputum. Why? Because MicroSoft has stopped supporting XP and no longer releases security patches for it, leaving it naked and helpless to malware attacks. OK ... we get the picture. To use WinXP on the 'net is to become a pariah.

So now, what say ye about Win7? It used to take about five minutes for Windows Update to scan my Win7 files, check, list, download, and install that month's security update patches. Simple. MS insisted that this was best done with the "auto" patch setting. Trust us! We will safeguard you!

The last three months, it has taken SIXTEEN HOURS to do the same update check. Meantime, there has been *absolutely no* notification from MS about *why* this is so. But we did get the *Windows 10* icon in the task bar, demanding to be activated and downloaded.

Investigation & downloading of a script, and a simple 'neverten.exe' program revealed that MS had infiltrated my Win7 system with numerous telemetry, monitoring, Win10 preparation, and Win10 download KB-patch files under the guise of "important security patches" with *absolutely no* explanation, notification, or choice.

This has done three things: 1) seriously affected the stability & useability of my Win7 install; 2) degraded the *trust* of MS security patches; and 3) made it near-impossible to use the windows update process to install on-going security patches. Sixteen hours? Really? (I've read reports from numerous others that they experience the same issue.)

Thus, MS is deliberately turning Windows 7 into a *pariah* version, same as Windows XP: unsafe to use on the internet. This is a *deliberate* move by MS to force everyone onto the Windows 10 treadmill, despite all objections.

Yes, this is a bit of a rant, but it is a *factual* rant, and one echoed by hundreds of other tech-savvy users on the public forums.

Stay with MS Windows if you find it useful, but when it blows up in your face, don't come to anyone looking for pity. It's becoming a self-inflicted shot to the head.

QM
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

Cost me nothing, came when I bought the tablet. I bought a user copy of 10 pro from a supplier for my home pc, it didn't break the bank and again, no problems.
It appears that some of you are using outdated drivers, trying to make it do something it isn't designed to do or promoting an operating system that isn't really designed to use any windows programs.
Windows 10 isn't perfect, nor are pc's. Then again neither are macs or linux systems. You work with what you've got and usually the problems you find are down to something you're doing wrong, or have introduced into the system you're using.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@QM

I bought a user copy of 10 pro from a supplier for my home pc


If you bought a device with MS Windows on it, the cost was built into the price, and you could've got the device a lot cheaper without the Windows being on it. However, the biggest cost is the extras. My friend is a Windows fanatic, but is now moving away from Windows because of the cost is just too huge.

Here in Australia Win 10 Pro is around A$240.00 but to switch up to it he also has to buy anew copies of MS Office A$320.00, Ms Project A$1,565.00, MYOB A$1,290.00, plus a couple of other programs I can't readily find prices on. Forget the Win 10 Pro, but the rest is $3,175.00 because the existing software running on his current Windows won't run on Win 10 because MS made changes to stop it running on Win 10.

The biggest costs and troubles are the other software that is forced into redundancy because of unneeded changes by MS.

graybyrd

@Ernest Bywater

My friend is a Windows fanatic, but is now moving away from Windows because of the cost is just too huge.


It will be even more fun when Microsoft slowly implements their next round of revenue-enhancing measures. They copyrighted the term "Windows 365" at the beginning of the year; total silence on their part leads many to suspect that Windows 10 may continue to be "free" for the life of your device, but a regimen of "improvements" and "features" and "additions" and "capabilities" will come only through a plan similar to "Office 365", commonly known as a monthly subscription pay-as-you go plan.

Unlike the original "optional" updates and patches, the NEW Windows is NOT optional. If a change breaks that $1,595 software app, you're stuck.

Already the high-end Enterprise systems are looking at a $7/month per user subscription fee. How long before us commoners get swept up in it.

It's foolish to assume that what was, will continue to be!

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd

Already the high-end Enterprise systems are looking


Some time back I saw a report where a Fortune 500 company was spending several million dollars to have their core software re-written to be platform independent with the client-side app to work in any browser off a main server running on Unix or Linux

awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

If you bought a device with MS Windows on it, the cost was built into the price, and you could've got the device a lot cheaper without the Windows being on it.


That's not necessarily true. For example, Dell was found to be charging more for Linux machines than their Windows equivalents.

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  graybyrd
Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

Dell was found to be charging more for Linux machines than their Windows equivalents.


That was due to Dell ripping people off because those prices also had a the cost of a Windows distro included in the price due to the way they preloaded Windows on everything then had to wipe out the Windows and load the Linux on.

However, that is a neat try to claim you got Windows free, which never happened with a new system - the charge is built in. If there was no agreement to put Windows on and it was all done aftermarket, then the machines would be cheaper by not having to load them up or charge for the software. But Dell likes it because what they add on is about double what MS charges them.

graybyrd
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


That's not necessarily true. For example, Dell was found to be charging more for Linux machines than their Windows equivalents.


Most common folk are completely unaware of the business practices of Microsoft since the earliest days. In truth, there's no reason they should know. Everyone has busy lives to lead. But...

We sorta trusted the gov't to play watchdog for us. After all, that's what we pay them for. That hasn't worked so well here in the US. Microsoft would contract sales of Windows to a hardware manufacturer ONLY if that manufacturer (Dell, Compaq, HP, Lenovo, Acer, etc etc) would install ONLY Windows on EVERY machine they offered for sale. AND NOTHING ELSE! If Dell offered a unit without a Windows installation, and instead had put Linux on it ... Microsoft would pull the contract. Every maker knew that would put them out of business overnight, because Microsoft was a monopoly player, and the great majority of computer sales demanded Windows.

It was only some years later that manufacturer pressure did allow a LIMITED exception. For instance, when I bought a new Dell computer for my wife, we did NOT want the Vista version; so in effect, we were forced to pay TWICE: once for the Vista that was licensed for that computer, and then ANOTHER license fee for XP to be installed. At that same time, some customers were demanding a machine free of the Microsoft TAX of the installed Windows, asking instead for a bare hard drive, or maybe even a Linux install with machine drivers. Dell finally did relent a little for Linux, but they (to the best of my knowledge) had to charge for the OEM Windows install, even if the machine came with Linux. In every instance, Microsoft enforced the contract terms, and their auditors kept careful track of how many computers each maker built and sold. Each one had to tally with the number of OEM Windows licenses provided. Typically, the way things worked out, each hardware maker had far more OEM licenses in bulk, than the number of machines actually sold. Go on eBay and see how many "excess" OEM versions are there for sale.

Some folks think that strong-arm, bully practices like this are just GOOD business. But think about this: how much higher are your taxes because EVERY local, town, city, county, state, and federal government office in the United States is trapped in the MS license monopoly, and cannot break free of it. But why should some elected clown care about that? You and I are paying the bill, and it gets higher every year!

Ugly? Hell yes. Business in the United States? Yep. We ain't got no monopolies here, cuz the gov't is totally blind to them, if they's big enough and vicious enough, and rich enough.

So go right ahead. Enjoy that FREE copy of Windows OS.

samuelmichaels

@Ernest Bywater

Win 10 Pro, but the rest is $3,175.00 because the existing software running on his current Windows won't run on Win 10 because MS made changes to stop it running on Win 10.

I am puzzled since my MS Office 2003 runs fine on my Windows 10. As does LibreOffice, of course.

Crumbly Writer

@Grant

There are significant issues relating to the way M$ has pushed the upgrade, and likewise relating to some of Win10s features, and their telemetry (which brings it in to line with current phones & tablets & a lesser extent iOS).
But as far as actually working is concerned, it's better than Win7 which is what i was using before.

The 'forced' Windows 10 upgrade is a new twist, borrowed from Adobe and others who went the subscription route years ago, and M$ is just now trying to force its existing users on board, whether they want to go or not. It used to be, users would switch whenever they bought a new machine, but the Win 10 hated is so intense, most aren't even doing that. So now they're forcing the issue, requiring people to turn OFF all their 'security upgrade' options.

@Ross at Play

You make innovation sound like a good thing. For most[,] it's not.

I like the latest wizzbang, not the 'new tech of the week that Samsung offers, which they abandon on their next model, but where they offer a couple new features to help justify upgrading (something I haven't seen on PCs for years). Apple still offers the new features, but even on top of the line PCs, you mostly have to add them on yourself, or purchase 'gaming' machines when you have no intention of gaming endlessly.

And by 'gizmo', I don't mean 'junk software' like a tablet interface, or something no one wants a desktop touch screen, but new hardware that increases what you can accomplish (more memory, better graphics, faster HD access, better wifi, etc.) Sorry guys, but Linux has the reputation for "I give up and am quitting learning anything new, ever again." M$ isn't really an option anymore, but I still want to be excited about technology's potential, rather than being too bored to care anymore. :(

tppm

I've been using W10 for a few months now with no serious problems.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@tppm

I've been using W10 for a few months now with no serious problems.

You CAN run it with no problems, but the question is what do you get out of it to justify paying a monthly subscription fee (the presumed purpose of forcing so many people to use the OS, as has been widely rumored since they first began).

So far, I haven't seen a single reason to justify upgrading. They claim it's more secure, but it's still the most hacked operating system in existence (M$'s PCs, in general). Otherwise, aside from the touch-screen 'tablet mode' that everyone despises, there's been virtually no improvements to the basic operating system in some time (decades).

Personally, I don't like to change unless I'm getting something better, and that I want to invest in. Call me strange, but I DON'T appreciate being forced to do anything!

Replies:   Grant  REP
Grant

@Crumbly Writer

Otherwise, aside from the touch-screen 'tablet mode' that everyone despises, there's been virtually no improvements to the basic operating system in some time (decades).

It's ridiculous blanket statements like these that have no basis in fact that I take issue with.

And it doesn't matter how many times you point out the actual facts, people believe what they want to believe, hate what they want to hate. The facts have no bearing.

Call me strange, but I DON'T appreciate being forced to do anything!

I agree.
And making it difficult to opt out (and according to some reports the next update will make it impossible to opt out of certain features- eg Cortana) is even more annoying.

Crumbly Writer

@Grant

It's ridiculous blanket statements like these that have no basis in fact that I take issue with.

Uh, what's your objection? That everyone despises 'tablet mode', or that M$ hasn't made many impressive changes?

For myself, I compare the changes being made on iOS, Android devices and Macs, as opposed to the lumbering changes made to PC and figure: why bother waiting for so little? The fact that Linux isn't as evil doesn't change the fact they innovate even slower than M$ does.

Replies:   Grant
sejintenej

@Grant

And making it difficult to opt out (and according to some reports the next update will make it impossible to opt out of certain features- eg Cortana) is even more annoying

Heaven help us if that is the case. I have a Microsoft W10 mobile phone and it is CRAP. Touch an icon and nothing happens. It turns itself off without reason. Many of the program icons don't work - Microsoft Edge, Offers, Store, mix radio, even trying to send texts. Although the phone makes a noise there is no indication when someone messages you. As for Cortana, ask it a question and either it doesn't answer or the answer is rubbish. If this is 5% typical of Microsoft go to Apple

Grant

@Crumbly Writer

Uh, what's your objection? That everyone despises 'tablet mode', or that M$ hasn't made many impressive changes?

The lack of impressive changes.
Although I guess it depends on what you consider impressive- user interface & eye candy, or actual under the hood hardware support.

For myself, I compare the changes being made on iOS, Android devices and Macs, as opposed to the lumbering changes made to PC and figure: why bother waiting for so little?

*shrug*
I used to use my computer for working on, now I use it to relax. The fact is that they had the desktop user interface pretty much right around the end of XP, start of Vista period, means it didn't need any big changes, just a few minor tweaks. Big changes make things difficult to use, not easier.
Unfortunately M$ decided they needed one OS for everything, which isn't a problem of itself- unfortunately they forgot that phones, tablets, and desktop systems are different devices & require different user interfaces. The ribbon might be great on a mobile device, but it sucks on a desktop system compared to the old menus with the odd icon in the menu bar. Great big slider type switches might be great on a phone, but they waste screen real estate and are a pain to use on a desktop- with physical switches one side is labeled On, the other is Off. Having the labels on one side of the switch just leads to confusion & makes it difficult to tell at a glance what's selected (was probably designed by the same numpty that removed the tab from the browser window).

Personal desktop systems have been around since the mid 80s. Computers that can be used as phones for not much more than a decade, so it's no wonder they're still figuring out the interface & that there are "impressive" changes to the interface isn't surprising, even though they've had over 30 years of interface development on PCs to learn from- it's a very different type of user interface that's required.
Just as it took a couple of decades to develop the graphical interface on desktop systems, it'll probably be the same for phones.

I don't consider changes in the user interface that don't provide any benefit to be innovation, it's just change for the sake of change, and that's pretty much what happened with Win8. Win10 they took it back to being a desktop interface, unfortunately it was only mostly, not completely.

REP

@Crumbly Writer

basic operating system in some time (decades).


I agree.

From my recollection, everyone hated the DOS program for many valid reasons. MS added a user interface program to get around the need to type in DOS commands and they called the new OS -- Windows. What most people failed to realize was they were still running DOS.

I suspect MS has improved the basic DOS program to some extent. How much is unknown and I suspect most of the development dollars have gone into creating their 'newer and better' OS programs. Apparently, MS hasn't learned the old adage of -- Don't try to fix it if it isn't broken'. Of course there is also the adage in business of -- grow or die.

Dominions Son

@Ross at Play

or a repeat of Windows-8. That was the biggest FU ever.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

sarcastic_cynic

If one has Windows 7, as I do. One only has to go into downloaded updates and uninstall KB3035583. Then all is good. Win7 stays as is.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@sarcastic_cynic

One only has to go into downloaded updates and uninstall KB3035583. Then all is good. Win7 stays as is.


Not quite. There's far more than just that one "patch." I've used these on my own Win7 system, after following the advice of many others who did the same.

First, download and run this script: "remove_crw.cmd" You'll need to use the "run" function (or terminal window). This script will sniff out and remove a bunch of telemetry & monitoring "patches" that Microsoft injected into your Windows 7 system in the guise of 'security' patches.

https://gist.github.com/xvitaly/eafa75ed2cb79b3bd4e9

Second, download this app. It will remove another handful of 'patches' that Microsoft injected into your system to prepare it for the forced Windows 10 download.

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

As I said, I & others have used these and found them safe & effective. There's a community of developers who resisted MS strong-arm thuggery, and wrote these tools to help the community.

There's a considerable amount of good info on the 'net about the Windows 10 situation. It's worth researching.

Crumbly Writer

Thanks, Graybyrd. As the documentation for Never 10 suggests, I'd simply turned ALL updates off to prevent some master power play by M$, but unfortunately, that prevents me from getting any necessary security updates (is that an oxymoron, or what?).

This might allow me to perform a long-awaited update. If you don't hear from me for several days, it likely didn't work!!!

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


This might allow me to perform a long-awaited update. If you don't hear from me for several days, it likely didn't work!!!


You don't need to bother. The free upgrade period is over so MS won't be upgrading your system to Windows 10. The little Win10 upgrade in the task bar went away on the free upgrade expiration date.

I've been running Windows 7 updates with no problem.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Switch Blayde

You don't need to bother.


The "free" might have gone away, but the telemetry and monitoring patches didn't... so it's a good idea to flush the spyware out of the system. That's the purpose of the script in the first link I posted. It executes a 'search & destroy' function on those MS patches, restoring the OS to its original condition.

I've been extremely reluctant to enable any additional "Windows Upgrade" sessions. MS totally destroyed my trust by shoveling all that shite into my working system via their "security patch" system, without being honest & upfront about what they were doing. Also, at one point, they virtually disabled the update process; it was taking up to sixteen hours (!) to complete; this was echoed by a number of others on websites I monitored.

I'm very sensitive to "trust" issues; deceive or lie to me once, I may reluctantly agree to try one more time. Deceive or lie to me again, the divorce is permanent. MS has destroyed all trust. So... play with the Devil, don't bitch about getting a pitchfork up yer ass! Folks who are now committed to Windows 10 as their primary system have a long, sad path ahead of them.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Crumbly Writer

I especially like how they all got (Windows-10 upgraders) a FREE pay-to-pay subscription service (once M$ finally turns it on). All indications are, this was where they've been heading for some time now.

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

Also, at one point, they virtually disabled the update process; it was taking up to sixteen hours (!) to complete; this was echoed by a number of others on websites I monitored.


That happened to me too. I thought it was a problem with my system. I use their Security Essentials and I had the same updating problems with that at the same time.

I'm very sensitive to "trust" issues; deceive or lie to me once, I may reluctantly agree to try one more time. Deceive or lie to me again, the divorce is permanent.


For me, it's already 3 strikes (they're out). My next laptop will be a Mac. As much as I don't like the overpricing of Apple and their proprietary hardware/software, what MS did with Windows 10 is inexcusable.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


I don't like the overpricing of Apple and their proprietary hardware/software


Indulge an old man for a moment: way back in the 80's & 90's, I was a raving Mac fanboi. Their way of doing things was light-years ahead of anything else for the purpose of desktop users working with publishing or graphics. (I was earning my living with it.) Over time, Apple devolved into the "iGadget" route and achieved extreme wealth by marketing content through their devices. (Golden spigots.) Prices reflected whatever the market would bear.

However, there are two great "evolution points" for computer users who are mainly concerned with writing, publishing, and casual graphics: OSX-10.4.11 "Tiger" for PowerPC; and OSX-10.6.8 for Intel machines.

I've run "Tiger" on PowerPC machines for years now; there's nothing that beats this stuff for productivity to be found in either the Windows or Linux worlds. Now, one can get it all for pennies on the used market. My experience: Mac desktop stuff is so good, it doesn't run for years; it runs for decades without failure.

HOWEVER, the second great "evolution point" was Apple's switch to Intel processors. The software pinnacle for Mac Intel machines was reached with OSX-10.6.8 "Snow Leopard". The great news? Virtually all of the software I ran on the PowerPC machine, is upgradeable to the Intel systems. Most of the upgrades are free; a few have a small charge.

Why should you care? Try this: go on eBay; see what a good, used "Mac Mini" with an Intel Core2 Duo will cost: US$100-150. Be sure it comes pre-loaded with OSX-10.6.8. Then add a nice, shiny new Lenovo 21.5-inch LED monitor for $120. Then go on eBay and find appropriate software discs for more pennies on the dollar. (Any good USB keyboard/mouse will cost a few more pennies.)

Recommended: Scrivener for Mac ($40, new); Scapple for Mac ($20, new); Calibre (free); TextEdit (free); GraphicConverter (shareware, $35) and so on... and be aware that a Mac already comes loaded with productivity software.

There's no reason to be super-glued to the MS conveyor belt to Hell; and there's no reason to spend thousand$ when it's so easy to spend a few hundred$ to have a desktop system that will last for one's entire writing career. Truly!

Computers for writing are just a tool, people, not a $elf-flagellating $acred ceremony of $acrifice!

It's become painfully obvious that new is most assuredly not better!

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