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Song lyrics

Lugh

Any consensus on their formatting? Block, Notice, or something else?

In the {block} format, does this need embedded HTML, or a hard carriage return, after each line of a stanza? Should there be two HTML BR's between stanzas:

Trained to live off nature's land
Trained in combat, hand-to-hand
Men who fight by night and day
Courage peak from the Green Berets

Silver wings upon their chest
These are men, America's best
One hundred men will test today
But only three win the Green Beret

{r}Barry Sadler, 1966

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Lugh

I stopped using the blockquote command at SoL because it displays in a very different font to the rest of the text. For poetry and song lyrics I now center the text in blue italics. You need to treat each stanza as a paragraph and use the BR command for each line within the stanza. Thus you need to format as (extra spacing within html code to display as text instead of being processed as a command):

< p >Trained to live off nature's land< br >
Trained in combat, hand-to-hand< br >
Men who fight by night and day< br >
Courage peak from the Green Berets< / p >

< p >Silver wings upon their chest< br >
These are men, America's best< br >
One hundred men will test today< br >
But only three win the Green Beret < / p >

to get the right spacing. However, I would do it as:

< p align="center" >< i > < font color="blue" >Trained to live off nature's land< br >
Trained in combat, hand-to-hand< br >
Men who fight by night and day< br >
Courage peak from the Green Berets< / font >< / i >< / p >

< p align="center" >< i > < font color="blue" >Silver wings upon their chest< br >
These are men, America's best< br >
One hundred men will test today< br >
But only three win the Green Beret < / font >< / i >< / p >

I used the above style coding in the revised version of Play Ball recently lodged in html code.

the above nesting and code is how it needs to be at SoL. The only color commands recognized are blue - green - red - hexidecimals codes aren't recognised, nor are other colors.

Replies:   Lugh
Lugh

@Ernest Bywater

Thank you! I've previously used {block} rather than the HTML blockquote, but, once I get the hang of this, I'd rather use something that you do. Simply from a user interface standpoint, this is something that I'd rather not have different looks from different authors.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

Two other things about these song lyrics:

1. If the song isn't in the public domain, which this song isn't, you can't legally include more than 10% of the song without running into copyright issues, unless you get the written permission of the current copyright holder.

2. In the lyrics you quote you have the line Courage peak from the green beret - I've seen lyrics where instead of the word 'peak' they use 'deep' and others with 'take' - in the recording I have of Barry Sadler singing the song he sings 'Courage take .." also in the recording by JD Micals I have he sings 'Courage take ...' - - so you need to get some definitive set of lyrics.

edit to add:

http://www.brownielocks.com/balladofthegreenberetsWAVE.html

http://greenberetcd.com/ballad.html

http://www.metrolyrics.com/ballad-of-the-green-beret-lyrics-johnny-cash.html

http://lyrics.wikia.com/wiki/Barry_Sadler:The_Ballad_Of_The_Green_Berets

Ernest Bywater

@Lugh

Thank you! I've previously used {block} rather than the HTML blockquote,


in the SoL tagged text { block } is it's equivalent of the html < blockquote > and the html code will be changed to the tagged text equivalent by the wizard.

In the past the tagged text { block } used to be displayed indented, aligned left in blue text. However, at some point that changed and it stopped being displayed in the same font as the general text in blue text and is now displayed in black text in a different font. I didn't like the way this displayed, so I changed how I set it out and stopped using the blockquote. or block command. In recent weeks I switch over to submitting to SoL in only html and it came out right - Play Ball was done that way in the last few days.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

In the past the tagged text { block } used to be displayed indented, aligned left in blue text. However, at some point that changed and it stopped being displayed in the same font as the general text in blue text and is now displayed in black text in a different font. I didn't like the way this displayed, so I changed how I set it out and stopped using the blockquote.

Many of us preferred the blockquote command to be indented, as it set the text off to denote notes, broadcasts or other things which alerted readers it wasn't the narrator speaking. However, I suspect that Ernest is the only one that insists on duplicating the old-style (for SOL) blue text. Otherwise, he sample coding is your best bet, since it centers and single spaces the song lyrics. I've also used that technique for quotes at the beginning of the chapter (in books, since they haven't appeared on SOL as yet).

Personally, I suspect that Lazeez is seeking to emulate how Amazon handles blockquote commands, reducing the indents to only a single character, as many ebooks are now copying that technique (including Calibre, among them, though you can turn that off manually). Frankly, if authors wanted to indent by a single character, we'd do it ourselves. So now, when I submit to Amazon, I create a Style to indent 5 character spaces on either side (ex: "5em;"), which varies depending on each display so it's properly proportional, rather than ignoring the indent entirely.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Bondi Beach

@Ernest Bywater

In the past the tagged text { block } used to be displayed indented, aligned left in blue text. However, at some point that changed and it stopped being displayed in the same font as the general text in blue text and is now displayed in black text in a different font.


In the ePub format generated by SOL such text appears in blue again, in the same font as the regular text, and indented from left and right margins and justified. It continues to appear on SOL itself in Courier (or a Courier-like) font.

bb

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Bondi Beach

In the ePub format generated by SOL such text appears in blue again, in the same font as the regular text, and indented from left and right margins and justified. It continues to appear on SOL itself in Courier (or a Courier-like) font.


BB, I've not used the blockquote on SoL, and haven't for a over a year, so what shows in the downstream files they create won't be affected in my stories by the { block } command SoL uses. It should just show the text as blue italic text. I do know the actual e-pub files I create in Calibre show in some readers with the colours, but others don't show the colours, but they do show the standard blockquote indentation.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

However, I suspect that Ernest is the only one that insists on duplicating the old-style (for SOL) blue text.


Could be, CW, but I was using blue italics for blockquoted notes etc in my stories before I started to post at SoL. It was a good it did the same, but since it changed I still want the SoL display to mimic what I do in the base text, so I changed how to do that on SoL to get what i want.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Ernest Bywater

It was a good it did the same, but since it changed I still want the SoL display to mimic what I do in the base text, so I changed how to do that on SoL to get what i want.


Blockquotes or {block} (same thing) are still indented on the site (by 3em, left and right) and have a left vertical border and set in monospaced font face.

The reason for the removal of colours is usability (and I actually thought to remove all colour support, including the {red}{blue}{green} tags). Not only I removed blue from {block} but I changed the story's titles, author name, chapter headers from maroon (dark red) to black for this reason.

You guys obviously don't use the full gamut of features available. No one does really.

To see what I mean, Ernest, open one of your stories and select the 'Night Time' theme from the scroller menu. Maybe you'll understand. This theme is very popular with people on phones or iPads reading at night in the dark.

Remember, readers can fully customize the story display and your colour choices may make things invisible. If a member chooses to use a black background with blue text or green text (like some old monitors) then blue text or green text become either completely invisible or barely visible.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)


open one of your stories and select the 'Night Time' theme from the scroller menu


First, I didn't know that option was available.

Second, I'll take your word some people prefer it, all that black makes me want to throw up. - (add typo edit)

BTW: My tablet has a simple setting I can activate to dim the display for night use and it adjusts the light levels of all the screens to suit the new setting I've chosen. I can adjust many aspects and then just have ti save it as 'Night Display' as against 'Day Display.'

The main reason I use blue for notes etc, is it stands out in most cases without standing out too much.

..................

One reason I use the colours in the titles is I like to give the readers a decent amount to read with each post. Using the colours allows me to indicate appropriate break points in the story based on the story line. Take Play Ball it posts on SoL as 9 parts and a foreword - but it consists of 15 chapters plus 26 sub-chapters and the foreword - that's 42 components that have their divisions shown by the headers with their colours. If I had to post each as a separate chapter to have that same division marked, that's a lot more work for everyone. Finding Home would blow out to over 120 posting chapters instead of the current 38 posting parts. It comes to the old saying: you can't please everyone.

..................

As to the gamut of features, would you call it a feature if it offers something you don't need or use. I amend the SoL display in the My Account - Display settings to show the way and colour I like. Thus I don't need to look at or use other themes or features that affect the display.

As to using all the available options, we need to know they're there before we can use them. If there isn't a help file telling us it's available, how are we supposed to know it's there to look for and use?

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Ernest Bywater

First, I didn't know that option was available.

Second, I'll take you word some people prefer it, all that black makes me want to throw up.


No need to get defensive. I was only giving the reason behind the change in stylesheet.

Didn't mean to pick on you, or to offend you. You were the only one that I remembered using colours.

I apologize if I made you feel like I'm picking on you.

Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Didn't mean to pick on you, or to offend you. You were the only one that I remembered using colours.

It emphasizes my earlier points (several threads back), that using colors for emphasis is problematic for a variety of reasons. Not only can't many people see it, but they won't work under a wide variety of circumstances. That doesn't necessarily limit their use, but why limit who's allowed to read your stories?

The design of html and ePub is that you leave the format basic (in this case) straight black on white without stipulating font or font size, and let the user decide how to display it on their own device. There's no reason for the author to dictate how the information is read. Their main objective is simply delivering the words on paper (with or without the paper).

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

I apologize if I made you feel like I'm picking on you.


I didn't feel you were picking on me. I saw it as you providing a detailed explanation. Sorry if I sounded defensive, but the way that appeared when is witched off did make my stomach want to flip. But differnt people like different hings.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

Their main objective is simply delivering the words on paper (with or without the paper).


Part of the information being delivered is the chapter title, and sub-chapter title. If they weren't differentiated in any way the reader wouldn't know which is a chapter and which is a sub-chapter.

I sue the colour and italics to get it across because I don't want to go down the track of going Chapter 1, Chapter 1A, Chapter 1B, Chapter 2.

As I said before, although the -book readers strip out different format code they only take either the color or the italics, and not both. The only reason the e-book readers don't use basic html or basic xhtml is because they want to try and collar readers and tie them to their devices.

Replies:   Lugh
Lugh

@Ernest Bywater

While I tried to use your markup example, I discovered that it only works if crafting from a text file. Lazeez told me it does not work as I used it: Word saved as Web Page, Filtered.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Lugh

While I tried to use your markup example, I discovered that it only works if crafting from a text file. Lazeez told me it does not work as I used it: Word saved as Web Page, Filtered.

I use WORD files saved as Web Page, Filtered, but since M$ puts in so much junk html code, it overwhelms the SOL (and many other) processors, so you have to go in and yank it all out. After years of doing so, I've finally managed to turn off all the WORD flags that cause the junk files, so I no longer have that problem, but I still review them. But yes, many users edit their WORD produced files using a text editor.

WORD tosses in links, definitions of terms, language definitions, color definitions and other extraneous information.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

WORD tosses in links, definitions of terms, language definitions, color definitions and other extraneous information.


Every word processor does - that's why I love 'Replace All' but leave the space of what to replace with empty - that deletes all the instances of the excess code, and only takes a few seconds to do with each incident. But there's a lot of them.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

But there's a lot of them.

As I've said, I've slowly whittled them down over the years. It's mostly a number of settings for what which word processor settings it saves in html (i.e. internal WORD settings vs. link settings vs. 'simple' html settings). Once you get everything turned off, you hardly make any changes. Now, the html code produced by WORD is almost perfect. Just don't ask me which settings, since I've turned them off, one by one, over the past several years. 'D

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

Just don't ask me which settings, since I've turned them off, one by one, over the past several years. 'D


Awwww, that's no fun. But I understand.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

Awwww, that's no fun. But I understand.

If you want, we could probably compare screen shots of the various settings screens and figure it out, but I can't list them off the top of my head.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

If you want, we could probably compare screen shots


nah, beinf different programs it may not work, anyway. I'll just play with the LO settings and see if they make a difference.

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