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Windows 10

docholladay

My roommate's computer just installed the Windows 10 without warning. Luckily she was able to return to the previous version she was running.

I don't know how that happened, but figured I would say something here so everyone can keep their eyes open.

Doc

docholladay

Just checked that upgrade button on my system and it seems to be set to do the upgrade even though I turned the offer down. It seems to have only 2 options:
Upgrade Now
Upgrade Tonight

Not sure what is happening with that mess.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@docholladay

I once did a Windows Update and somehow Windows 10 was included in the update list. I was able to stop it before it actually happened and then figured out how to remove it from the install list. It was a while ago so I don't remember the details.

garymrssn

Here is an article that relates to the problem.
It helped me stop them from downloading the 3GB upgrade on my $10 per GB connection without my permission.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/08/windows_10_upgrade_blocker/

Crumbly Writer

M$ has been trying to force upgrades to Windows 10. Frankly, you're best bet is to disable ALL upgrades, since you never know which will upgrade you and which don't.

It's long been argued that this was the entire objective of M$'s 'free upgrade' to Windows 10. Once they get enough people onto Windows 10, then substitute the 'free' software and begin a Subscription service. However, in order for that to work, they need to shut down every Windows XP (there's still a lot of them), Windows 7, 8 and 9.

There are like 10 different openings to forced upgrades on Windows 10. Once they force everyone onto it, the next step is monthly payments to keep your computer active.

Might be time to convert to another OS.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


However, in order for that to work, they need to shut down every Windows XP (there's still a lot of them), Windows 7, 8 and 9.


That won't work for corporate licensees that control upgrades and patches through their IT department.

I don't know of any corporation and I've seen into a few that is using anything newer than Win 7.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

I don't know of any corporation and I've seen into a few that is using anything newer than Win 7.


I know of a few that are still on Win XP because they have critical core software that was designed for XP and doesn't work properly on any version of Win 7 or later. Last i heard some were investigating Virtual Machine options while others were having their software rewritten to work on Unix / Linux and preparing to totally drop Microsoft software across the board.

On a related point, there are millions of users around the world still on DOS for some special systems because the computer controlled machinery have DOS controllers and they can't be upgraded.

Replies:   Dominions Son
docholladay

Just to be on the safe side. I am in the process of making a complete backup. Nothing like a little extra insurance maybe.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

I know of a few that are still on Win XP


I said I didn't know of any that were using anything newer than 7. I didn't say I didn't know of any that were using something older than 7.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Dominions Son

@docholladay

A complete backup won't help much if they force upgrade you a second time six months after you restore the back because they force upgraded you the first time.

Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

I realise that, and just mentioned there are many who have legit reasons not to be using Win 7, either. They're also in the sights of Microsoft to get pushed into an upgrade.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
docholladay

In other words the users like me are going to be screwed royally. Hopefully someone can afford to sue them over this action.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

I realise that, and just mentioned there are many who have legit reasons not to be using Win 7, either. They're also in the sights of Microsoft to get pushed into an upgrade.

M$ has essentially given up on upgrading Win 7 (as they want everyone to migrate to Win 10), so I've just turned off upgrades entirely. I used to examine each upgrade, deciding which ones to include and which to skip, but when they started playing games with 'necessary upgrades' to force certain behavior (like upgrades or to disable features), I said "Screw it!"

Dominions Son

@docholladay

In other words the users like me are going to be screwed royally.


See the link posted by garymrssn above. You can stop the forced upgrade, but you have to take specific action to do so.

docholladay

Some one also told me that its possible to let it install then reinstall 7 giving a legal copy of it while its still a freeby. I am not sure how that might work out however. Seems to be a little risky.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@docholladay

Some one also told me that its possible to let it install then reinstall 7 giving a legal copy of it while its still a freeby. I am not sure how that might work out however. Seems to be a little risky.

It's risky because, while some users can back out of the upgrade, many can't. Before you take this route, ask yourself how comfortable you are reinstalling from scratch and saving all your data (like your email history, which Windows buries in hidden, invisible folders).

If you really want to keep Windows 7 while preserving your rights to Win 10, I'd go with a dual-boot system.

graybyrd
Updated:

The internet tech news sites have kept abreast of the Microsoft "upgrade to Ten" forced march since it began. This UK tech site has a 'comments' section for each news article, and the MS misuse of their security patch process to surreptitiously install the upgrade has met with scathing criticism and rejection.

http://www.theregister.com/

Note: the next tactic you'll see is a pop-up alert box on your screen announcing that you have been "scheduled" for the Win10 upgrade, with a date and time. You can opt out, of course.

As for the "downgrade" back to Win7 if you wish to uninstall the "free" Win10, you'll find that your Win7 license is no longer valid. You opted to take the Win10 offer, and there you are.

Our household has computers running WinXP and Win7, due to specific software requirements. I've also installed Linux on all of them in a "dual boot" arrangement: when powering up the computer, a screen comes up giving a choice of which system to activate. Primarily, we use Linux for any online use.

Many if not most Register site comments suggest either dual-boot or virtual installs of Windows alongside Linux "Mint" as a good choice.

Microsoft has taken a totally intrusive and controlling approach to Windows; their current plan is to move everyone to Win10 by summer's end. Then it will be a totally cloud-controlled system, with "streaming" updates and modifications. The user will have no control over what is or is not installed.

As for business, only those holding the "Enterprise" licensing schemes will retain a degree of control. Others will not.

Also be aware that Win10 has a pervasive "telemetry" monitoring scheme, reporting many aspects of your computer usage back to MS. Alongside that, a number of "security patches" have installed similar telemetry functions in Win7 and 8/8.1.

We've totally disabled all MS so-called "security patch" functions, as they've been compromised by these MS actions. Be aware that NONE of the Win10 upgrade "patches" were identified as such, and trying to track them back to MS for further information was also so obfuscated as to be useless. Also, when users "declined" these patches, the next round of so-called "Patch Tuesday" offerings would trigger them back on, and over-riding the user choice.

I consider MS to be unethical, intrusive, dishonest, and untrustworthy. We retain Window only to the extent that certain software programs require. However, we now regard ANY MS OS to be unfit for purpose, and unsafe for internet use. Your mileage may vary, of course, but you've been warned!

Replies:   sejintenej  garymrssn
sejintenej

I'm running Win 7 on this laptop but my phone came with Win 10. I hope Lazeez will not be too offended by strong language but the Win10 on my phone is a dog's anal effluent. Avoid like the plague (remember that the plague killed well over 10% of the world's population).

As for this laptop I do have a copy of the original setup but a) if I check it APPEARS that I am running Win8 (not 7) and b) those morons keep inundating me with Win10 update trash in a weird foreign language much of which I don't understand. They have never ever even tried to tell me why Win10 is better than Win7, they have never even tried to tell me if my laptop is compatible with Win10.

I have the added problem that I have two laptops, both on Win7, but with totally different characteristics. Worse, the OS on the Italian one (not this one) was loaded on top of the old OS which is a recipe for disaster - what is going to happen when they try to load Win10 on top of Win7 on top of Win? which is on top of Win?. Of course they are uncontactable; when I tried to get help with the phone I got f**k all. They wouldn't even tell me what the icons mean..
American English I can normally easily understand (obviously) but can't they fµµµµµµg write in either UK or American English?

sejintenej

@graybyrd

As for the "downgrade" back to Win7 if you wish to uninstall the "free" Win10, you'll find that your Win7 license is no longer valid. You opted to take the Win10 offer, and there you are.

Surely if you have a valid legal copy of Win7 and back it up then you can reinstall it at any time. My laptop (Acer under another name) comes with a facility to make a full copy and gives the instructions how to replace your current OS with the old one. It even chases you to make the backup.

My favourites / bookmarks are stored on a separate ISP message site so I don't lose them, the OS software makes backups of documents on to other media (and I also have another hard disk as well). Email is stored on my ISP so that is safe - my only problem is downloading extra programs again

Replies:   graybyrd
garymrssn

@graybyrd

Graybyrds post is dead on. The only thing he left out is M$ new business model. They call it Windows as a Service. What that means is they are trying to move to a subscription model where customers pay a continuing periodic fee to keep using the OS. That is why they are pushing so hard to get rid off the older versions.
The sinister arrogance of M$ reminds me of the evil entity from an apocalyptic SF novel.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@garymrssn

The sinister arrogance of M$ reminds me of the evil entity from an apocalyptic SF novel.


I would have said Sauron.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
graybyrd
Updated:

@sejintenej


Surely if you have a valid legal copy of Win7 and back it up then you can reinstall it at any time.


I cannot speak from personal experience to this issue, but the comments of IT pro's from the Register site indicate that the Win7 serial will no longer "validate" when it refers back to the MS database, if that's required. Whether that's actually the case ???

The consternation is the apparent disregard MS displays for your "ownership" of the Win7 license; you'll move up to Win10. Or else? I dunno.

To my way of thinking (I'm old; I have memories of a free, less-regulated way of life) my computer is a tool I've purchased for my personal use. The software supposedly came with a non-expiring user license, for which I paid good money. In obtaining said license(s) I never relinquished control of my computer, nor did I authorize monitoring or telemetry or outside intrusion. My computer system is private to me, and all content is off-limits to outside monitoring, tampering, or alteration.

Microsoft Corporation has taken the opposite position. That is unacceptable.

At this time, the only transparent, ethical, functional and trustworthy personal computer OS available to a typical user is Linux. There is an excellent website, Distrowatch.com, that is a great starting point to see what's available. There's an embarrassment of riches; almost too much to choose from. Fortunately, most are simply variations on a theme. One common base is Debian linux, from which the hugely popular Ubuntu distro's have sprung. The major difference then becomes the 'bells & whistles' of the user desktop interface. Linux "Mint" seems to be most widely accepted as a great, user-friendly OS. It's right near the top of the Distrowatch listings.

For the author, there is LibreOffice, which replaces MS Office. Scrivener (literatureandlatte.com) has a beautiful free version for Linux). For markdown fanatics, there is the great "ReText" editor. And so on...

Addendum: for years, MS has essentially forced owners onto a hardware obsolescence treadmill: your "old, useless" computer must be sent to the landfill, because it will not run new, improved, enhanced user-experience MS-XX" So hustle down to 'Puters-R-US' and get the shiny new "Screamer 2018" with Windows X!"

And... repeat.

Linux will run on virtually any old computer you've got stashed in the closet or basement, gathering dust. For future use, the 32-bit OS is becoming outdated. Plan on switching over to 64-bit Linux installs in the next year or two. But hang on to the 32-bit Linux install CD/DVD; it doesn't expire, and will run that old Pentium III machine for a good many years.

A typical Linux install is "LTS," meaning Long-Term Support, good for four or five years. And most are "stable" versions, meaning they're de-bugged, tested, and good for long-term service. Nothing will be injected with security updates to break, mutilate, or crash the system. Many linux installs run for months without rebooting.

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

the comments of IT pro's from the Register site indicate that the Win7 serial will no longer "validate"


Maybe the free Win10 upgrade has a stipulation that it's replacing your older license.

Replies:   graybyrd
Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd

I cannot speak from personal experience to this issue


However, I can speak on this issue. When you upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10 using the upgrade option the serial number stays the same, but it gets listed in the Microsoft update servers as being a Win 10 serial number. Thus, if you later try to rebuild the system as Win 7 with the original disc it will not validate and you have to rebuild the system as Win 10. It happened when I tried to use the original Win 7 disc my son originally had on a system he upgraded to Win 10, then stopped using. When I tried to put the Win 7 on another machine the system loaded, but when it got to the validation I got a message the serial number was invalid because it belonged to a Win 10 installation.

graybyrd
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


Maybe the free Win10 upgrade has a stipulation that it's replacing your older license.


Perhaps. You see, this is the thing: MS is NOT being upfront with users. There's no disclosure concerning the Win7 license, for example. There's no disclosure about the flood of "security patch" injections that trigger the Win10 upgrade. There's no disclosure of the telemetry monitoring that sends your computer usage data back to MS. In short, MS is like malware, injecting bots and triggers into your computers under the cloak of security patches, without disclosing what they are doing, and worse yet, actively over-riding your instructions to cancel the options, by resetting them with each new security flood, and without informing you.

Attempts to get more information about these injections and overrides just results in MS "double-speak" about "Enhanced User Experience" and "Improved Operating Performance"... "Trust Us: You Will Be Satisfied!"

I think the vast majority of personal computer users are ignorant of what's happening, or don't care until they're forced to pay recurring charges, or their machine is so compromised they'll abandon it or go buy another "new, shiny!" one with a fresh Win10 install. I've read report after report of this exact thing happening. It's ugly. But as long as the majority of the sheep are blissfully unaffected, they ignore the wolf and keep their heads down, unaware.

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

I would have said Sauron.

Only if Sauron was an inefficient, nitpicker who can't get anyone to pay attention to him. Instead, M$ is insisting that people who are no longer in love with the OS do their evil bidding for no gain to them whatsoever. That's a recipe for disaster.

Unfortunately, Linux and it's variants don't always support the entire array of programs and Apple products cast a bloody fortune (they're worth it, but when you consider paying $2,000 instead of $350, you're asking a lot--though they've been shown to last 5 times as long and by unplugging your laptop you can extend that by an additional 7 times!!!).

The worst part is that M$ has given up on developing new features. Instead they simply repackage(move buttons and replace menus with tabs) the same product, add features no one wants or ever asked for (who touches the screen of a desktop or laptop) and expect people to continue to support them.

I finally upgraded to an Apple laptop, but continue using an older Windows 7 desktop because it continues to function well once I got it installed the way I wanted it (I LOVE the look of the 5K Mac desktops though!).

graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

Unfortunately, Linux and it's variants don't always support the entire array of programs


There is that, admitted. But not as bad as it used to was; there are good replacements in some instances, and in others, the offerings have improved substantially. And, the team producing the Windows-workalike, WINE, have improved it to run more Windows programs. I use two Windows apps, EditPlus text editor, and Atlantis word processor, that work flawlessly under WINE on Linux. So there's accommodation, and it's slowly improving. It costs nothing to try but a little time...

As for Apple, sadly most of what you say is true. Their products have always been expensive, and tightly-restricted within the Apple walled garden. And there's been a series of catastrophic "forced obsolescence" steps by Apple. Be prepared to update frequently, upgrading or replacing software.

And, that said, I maintain an early-days Mac writing & editing suite of hardware and software (Mac PPC G4 laptop; OS-X 10.4 "Tiger" OS) that remains the best, most powerful, and most flexible writing & researching tool possible. None of the new Mac hardware or software has really improved on what they'd accomplished earlier; they've just made it faster, shinier, with more 'features' ... all glitz and glimmer, but no real core improvements.

I've searched & searched, but there are NO equivalent replacements in either the Windows or Linux universe. Sad, and others may argue, but Apple from early days was totally focused on publishing and graphic production, so their system was crafted to support that. Since then, Apple has pretty moved on to be the "Golden Spigot" of entertainment content via the iGoodies... so the desktop environment has remained pretty static.

Anyway, Windows has shot itself in the head; Apple is insanely expensive and is focused on entertainment glitz, and Linux is fragmented into 3,500 forked camps. But of the three, Linux offers the creative PC user the best deal, and it gets better every day.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

I LOVE the look of the 5K Mac desktops though!


I won't do Macs. My parents had an Apple IIe way back when. Then we upgraded to an Apple IIgs. The IIgs was superior in almost every way to the early Macs, but Apple killed it to promote the Macs.

We walked away from Apple at that point and we haven't looked back.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Only if Sauron was an inefficient, nitpicker who can't get anyone to pay attention to him. Instead, M$ is insisting that people who are no longer in love with the OS do their evil bidding for no gain to them whatsoever.


Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

MS may be inept in may ways, but they are trying to turn windows into a digital version of the one ring.

One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them all, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
In the land of Redmond where the shadows lie.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@Dominions Son


MS may be inept in may ways, but they are trying to turn windows into a digital version of the one ring.


One fact that upsets me more than any other concerning the MS aggression: that we all, we taxpayers of municipal, district, county, state and federal government levels, are paying a most cruel and inexorable tax, the heavy burden of Microsoft domination. Think of the license fees, the forced equipment upgrades, and the professional systems and network specialists that we taxpayers support as Microsoft imposes its boot upon our necks. No protest is possible; every plea to government bodies to switch over to a more reasonable system falls on deaf ears. "We have too much invested; it would be too costly to change!" is the universal response.

Microsoft understands that, and has a team of rapid-response representatives to thwart any rebellion. Witness what they've done in other countries that attempt a switch-over to open-source systems. Google it to read how MS assaults any effort to switch.

With government captive at all levels, Microsoft can charge whatever the market will bear, and will continue to be a most profitable corporation for decades to come. Next, let us discuss their strangle-hold on US military systems...

Or... not. It's too depressing.

Mordor? Aye!

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

Think of the license fees, the forced equipment upgrades, and the professional systems and network specialists that we taxpayers support as Microsoft imposes its boot upon our necks. No protest is possible; every plea to government bodies to switch over to a more reasonable system falls on deaf ears. "We have too much invested; it would be too costly to change!" is the universal response.

Hell, there's a surprising amount of U.S. government institutions permanently locking into Windows XP (or even earlier).

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  graybyrd
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

Hell, there's a surprising amount of U.S. government institutions permanently locking into Windows XP (or even earlier).


Amazing how much business you can get from wooing a few people making purchasing decisions.

graybyrd
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Hell, there's a surprising amount of U.S. government institutions permanently locking into Windows XP (or even earlier).


And that's quite amazing, with a moment's thought. At one time, Windows XP was the flagship product of a proud software house, proclaiming that all important affairs of the globe were carried upon its able back; now, to mention that one has Windows XP resident on one's drive and, worse yet, allowed to touch the internet... ! Why, that is to expose the sensitive frailties of our susceptible system to the rot and corruption of the loathsome underbelly of a corrupted, foul, and tainted excrescence best buried and forgotten! How DARE anyone cling to such a dangerous, befouled system of infectious malware, viruses, worm-ridden pestilence! Excise it, exorcise it, erase and eradicate it, destroy any trace of it, and never seek to raise it up again.

Windows XP! The scourge of safe and sensible computing!

Amazing, what a reversal of reputation! Of regard! Such powerful fear, uncertainty, and doubt!

And what was it that brought about such loathing? Why, simply that Microsoft chose to stop patching and mending all of XP's faults, and instead transferred the blessing to Windows Vista!

Vista, now shunned as the failed step-child! Short-lived Vista, lame and halt from its birth.

Windows 7! Proud, shining, strong! Recipient of monthly blessings, patches upon its shining armor, healings of the continuing woundings from outrageous sling-stones of unconscionable attacks. Standing bruised but proud. Hail, Windows 7!

Alas! Comes Windows 8! Shining new face! Alas, the schizophrenia of neither tablet nor monitor, which is it? The bastard child of touch and tile, shunned from its birth. No 'starter' this ill-begotten child.

Ahh! Windows 8.1. There never really was an "8" you know. No, never, 'twas always "8.1" that graces our sales, fills the sails of the flagship line!

And it sank, unloved, unlauded, unheralded.

Whither is 9? Windows 9? "Nein" the cruel pranksters jibed. Silence. Nevermore the line of 7, 8, ... 9?

Skip to 10! Online! Celestial Clouds of Security, Sensibility, Prosperity, and Ever-Connected Streaming Viability! Endless flow of patches and protections, updates and injections, never-ending blessings of viability, virility, and PROFITABILITY!

Hail Ten! Begone, accursed XP, begone with thee!

And when 7 support ends, the mantle of crepusculent shame falls upon it, degraded and foul creature laid upon the rotted corpse of XP. A sad end, undeserved, unearned, laid abandoned on the dung heap of unprofitability. We'll not miss ye, degraded excrescence of the ever-advancing monster that created thee!

docholladay

All wasn't lost however on the other computer. The screen had some kind of message as she went to use it with an option to decline. She of course "Declined" and it rebooted back to her existing system. If it hits anyone's system, watch for that screen where you can either accept or decline.

Not sure why they have to do it the way they are. Hell the option of a free download and install ends in July anyway.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@docholladay


Not sure why they have to do it the way they are. Hell the option of a free download and install ends in July anyway.


I'm not sorry to say that you cannot trust MS to honor your choice to decline the Win10 download & install offer. Please go to this site and download the GWX control panel, and install it. Follow the instructions, and it will defeat any forced upgrade. If later you decide that you want to install Win10 then you can instruct the GWX control panel to allow it.

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

Be advised that at some point your computers will display that screen panel announcing a date and time for your scheduled update to Win10. The way to prevent that is to install the GWX tool, or intercept and deny the scheduled upgrade.

Seriously: skilled computer system professionals all around the 'net have been screaming "foul" about this MS practice. It's nothing to treat lightly.

I have had this GWX tool installed on my Win7 laptop for several months now, and it works perfectly. No threat, no problems.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd

I have had this GWX tool installed on my Win7 laptop for several months now, and it works perfectly. No threat, no problems.


Until Microsoft places a way around it as a highly important mandatory security update in the system.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Ernest Bywater

Until Microsoft places a way around it as a highly important mandatory security update in the system.


Well, yes, there's always that, I suppose. But that's as good as an open declaration of war, isn't it? Let the fun and games follow.

Seriously, the GWX tool removes all the known KB patches (there are at least a dozen, some for telemetry, some for triggering the download, etc. And there seems to be a savvy group keeping an eye on such skulduggery. So far, so good...

Truth be told, there's only my $400 marine navigation program that demands Windows to run, and it runs nicely under XP. So I can wipe the threatened Win7 install, and dedicate that laptop to Linux. My old mil-spec IX-260+ salt-water proof laptop with XP is excellent for on-board navigation.

Truthfully? When push comes to shove, one can learn to live without Windows. There are options.

Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd


Well, yes, there's always that, I suppose. But that's as good as an open declaration of war, isn't it? Let the fun and games follow.


It's not the first time Microsoft has done things along those lines, so I'd keep an eye out. It depends on if they think the GWX is used by enough people to be of a concern to them.

Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd

Truthfully? When push comes to shove, one can learn to live without Windows. There are options.


I learned that over a decade ago. However, Intel have forced me to the dark-side because I had to buy a new system and bought a new Intel Skylake chip because it was touted as the best out there. Sadly, I've not found a version of Unix or Linux that will load on it yet. Thus I'm stuck with MacroShaft Windows for now. Luckily there is a way to load Win 7 onto the system instead of the Win 10 it insists on. That's how i found out about the issue with my son's old Win 7 serial number being permanently upgraded to Win 10. But I got a new Win 7 Pro DVD OK and loaded that after applying a little after market file to the boot and install USB I made from the DVD. I'll go back to my Penguin when it is able to run on the CPU.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Ernest Bywater

Sadly, I've not found a version of Unix or Linux that will load on it yet.


That sounds like the Devil's bargain struck between Microsoft and Intel: the EFI (?) chip code that sniffs for "valid" OS signatures. I thought the Penguin had worked around that, but again, the devil's in the details, so maybe not all instances are covered. I assume you've researched the barrier?

A cynic might say that huge corporate leverage struck down any government objections. A corollary to the EFI is a recent agreement between MS and Intel that new cpu chips will not run versions of Windows earlier than Win10. Those are coming soon.

Forgive me, for I read these reports, then tuck them away. Details then get a bit fuzzy. That's a result of the reports getting dumped together into the "World is going to shit" drawer of my mind.

Anyway, whenever I need total recall, the 'net is quick to yield the details.

Good luck with that Skylake chip. BTW, my son works in Intel's Fort Collins lab with a building full of chip researchers. I'm sure he could get a definitive clue as to what the problem is.

(Jewish Father: "My son, the engineer!")

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd

I assume you've researched the barrier?


As best as I can. It appears to be something to do with extra commands dealing with the additional capabilities of the extra PCI-E lanes or the built-in graphics processor. Not exactly sure, and neither is anyone else, at this stage. The Linux community is working on it, but haven't got an answer I'm aware of, yet. Time will see it solved, just annoying to wait.

graybyrd
Updated:

Update:

Concerning that "scheduled Windows 10 Upgrade" notice some of you may receive, here's something to be aware of (courtesy of TheRegister):

"Microsoft is hurt and disappointed that people would think it was trying to "trick" them with a confusing Windows 10 upgrade dialog that scheduled an upgrade without users explicitly agreeing to do so.

Redmond recently created a new Windows 10 nagware reminder that presented a dialog asking you to install the OS. But if users clicked the red "X" to close the dialog - standard behaviour for dispelling a dialog without agreeing to do anything - Microsoft took that as permission for the upgrade."


I'll not apologize for thinking, and publicly saying, that any business that uses a tactic such as "baiting" the universally-accepted "NO" box containing a red X, to become a "YES" box is committing a fraud. Normally, people go to prison for such fraudulent and deceptive behavior, unless you are a rich and powerful "corporate" citizen ("Corporations are People") in which case, such criminal behavior is exempt from prosecution.

Caveat Emptor!

Dominions Son

@graybyrd

in which case, such criminal behavior is exempt from prosecution.


Technically this is not true, at least not under US law.

It is possible under US law to prosecute a corporation in it's own right on criminal charges. While a corporation can't be sent to prison in a literal sense, possible penalties include fines, placing the corporation in receivership and revoking it's corporate charter.

However, as a practical matter it is fairly close to being true. For reasons I am not aware of prosecutors in the US have been unwilling to invoke this option against large and/or publicly visible corporations.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  graybyrd
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

For reasons I am not aware of prosecutors in the US have been unwilling to invoke this option against large and/or publicly visible corporations.


They want to get re-elected to their positions and taking the people who own them to court won't help that. That's the reason why.

Replies:   Dominions Son
graybyrd
Updated:

There was a time in the U.S. when such things as the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was taken seriously, and corporations were held to a higher standard of ethical and defensible business practices. In my lifetime, that has been eroded to the point where the very worst punishment a U.S. corporation can expect to receive is a monetary slap on the wrist, typically a "penny on the dollar" fine vs. ill-gotten profits.

Okay. Regarding this thing about Microsoft. I realize that in the U.S., moral arguments and issues of integrity, honesty, and accountability have as much public value as a handful of used toilet paper...

But I still feel that TRUST is a prime factor. This latest trick by MS demonstrates that trust in them is misplaced.

graybyrd
Updated:

@Dominions Son


However, as a practical matter it is fairly close to being true.


I should have said "practically impossible." Fact is, major corporations are for all intents and purposes, exempt from prosecution other than a monetary slap on the wrist if a bit of political buckle-polishing is exercised.

Here in Washington State, it is practically impossible to prosecute a law officer for a violent crime against the public, thanks to an impenetrable shield law that requires proof of malicious intent to get a conviction. That, of course, is practically impossible to prove. Fortunately, in most years, it hasn't been a problem. When a squad of foot-pursuit cops shot down and killed a running Latino man in Pasco, WA, recently, they were tried & found guilty in the court of public opinion... but that's the ONLY court that laid guilt.

So what's on the books, and what gets enforced, and what the public thinks... ne'er the twain shall meet. But I digress...

Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

They want to get re-elected to their positions and taking the people who own them to court won't help that. That's the reason why.


US Federal prosecutors are not elected. And this sort of action by MS would subject them to federal criminal jurisdiction.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  graybyrd
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

US Federal prosecutors are not elected.


Now that you've limited from all the prosecutors in the US to the US federal prosecutors, you have to look at them getting the approval of their political bosses to proceed. The US federal prosecutors are after Kim Dotcom because he never paid their political bosses big sums for their election campaigns while some of the companies who claim he caused violation of their copyrights did fork out big bucks, so he gets done, but the others don't. The US has the best judicial system money can buy.

graybyrd
Updated:

@Dominions Son


US Federal prosecutors are not elected.


Let's take the case of Chris Christie, the Governor of New Jersey who attempted a run at becoming Republican candidate for U.S. President, and is now serving as bag man for Candidate Trump.

Christie was a money raiser for former President Geo. W. Bush. He had absolutely no law experience. As a reward for his fund raising, Bush appointed Christie to the U.S. Federal Prosecutor's position in New Jersey; Christie then proceeded to prove he was "tough on crime" and his own political career was launched.

What major corporations are able to do with impunity actually pales in comparison to the corruption and stench that is the U.S. Government electoral and campaign funding system today. Most people prefer to deny or ignore it. After all, who gets pleasure from wading in the contents of the septic tank.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@graybyrd

the corruption and stench that is the U.S. Government electoral and campaign funding system today.


And the alternative is what? Public financing? Do you actually imagine that putting the funding of challenger campaigns in the hands of incumbent politicians would be better for democracy or produce a less corrupt result?

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Dominions Son

And the alternative is what?


Okay. That's a vote for the septic tank.
Next?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@graybyrd

Okay. That's a vote for the septic tank.


Not really, but I've seen no proposed alternative that I would remotely consider an improvement. If you actually have a remotely realistic idea, put it forward.

It's like some say about democracy itself. It's the worst possible form of government except for all the others that have been tried.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Dominions Son

Then there is absolute monarchy. Which seem to be features of both Heaven and Hell. Heaven is reputed to be better than Democracy. Of course most nations that are alleged to have Democracy actually have a Republic. George Washington seemed to believe you could run a Republic without political parties. Experience seems to prove at least one is required and having just one makes Hell look attractive. National Socialist Party, Communist Party, whatever they had in Cambodia. On the other hand, Carles DeGaul is reputed to have said, how can you govern a country with more parties than kinds of cheese? The British seem to manage with three major parties, and some ethnic ones based on Scottish or Welsh nationalism. Of course they have the advantage of a Monarchy with most of the ceremony falling on the Royals. As Ben Franklin said, "A Republic, Sir, if you can keep it." What we have now is mostly a mess.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

What we have now is mostly a mess.


I agree, it's mostly a mess. However, if anyone does ever come up with a better idea, I am doubtful that it can be implemented peacefully.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Dominions Son

Robert Heinlein in Starship Troopers postulated a government where only citizens who had performed national service in the armed forces or whatever service they were suited for could vote, but only after the service had been completed. There were some educational requirements "Moral Philosophy" if I remember correctly. Of course its fiction but it might work better than the oligarchy we have now, rich running most of the machinery with window dressing of elections where at least 90% of all elected officials get re-elected easily.

If the economy doesn't go to hell before November, the incumbent party (Dims) are likely to win no matter what No-Trump says. Not that Hillary is any bargain, but she is a little less scary than the Donald, the devil we don't know.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
sejintenej

@graybyrd

(courtesy of TheRegister):

"Microsoft is hurt and disappointed that people would think it was trying to "trick" them with a confusing Windows 10 upgrade dialog that scheduled an upgrade without users explicitly agreeing to do so.

Redmond recently created a new Windows 10 nagware reminder that presented a dialog asking you to install the OS. But if users clicked the red "X" to close the dialog - standard behaviour for dispelling a dialog without agreeing to do anything - Microsoft took that as permission for the upgrade."


Especially when the message is in some foreign language. Last night I contacted MS and they were actually very helpful in remotely checking for viruses etc, keeping me on W7 and starting a 2 day download which will replace the foreign with English.

I did point out that I have a mobile phone with W10 which is a pig. So much so that I hear that MS is selling Nokia (its phone manufacturing company) and abandoning the manufacture of its smart phones (which use W10).
Phew!!!!!!!

Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

I hear that MS is selling Nokia (its phone manufacturing company) and abandoning the manufacture of its smart phones (which use W10).


Which is funny, because MS couldn't get any companies to put Win 10 on a phone until they bought one and made them do it. Now they're selling it off.

Replies:   sejintenej
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

Robert Heinlein in Starship Troopers postulated a government where only citizens who had performed national service in the armed forces or whatever service they were suited for could vote, but only after the service had been completed. There were some educational requirements "Moral Philosophy" if I remember correctly. Of course its fiction but it might work better than the oligarchy we have now, rich running most of the machinery with window dressing of elections where at least 90% of all elected officials get re-elected easily.

Personally, in these days of mega-data analysis, I think we should institute a nationwide survey. Anyone who personally believes 3 or more clearly disproven internet conspiracy theories (assuming any single one might be true) should not only become ineligable to vote, but should have their library cards shredded (since they're unlikely ever to use it for anything other than porn access--which in itself isn't bad, because an ignorant mass of people angry at nothing in particular is better served jerking off than pulling levels which might have a significant impact on society).

I'm personally getting tired of being known internationally as the land of the 'best educated idiots in the entire world'!

Replies:   richardshagrin
Crumbly Writer

@sejintenej

I did point out that I have a mobile phone with W10 which is a pig. So much so that I hear that MS is selling Nokia (its phone manufacturing company) and abandoning the manufacture of its smart phones (which use W10).

PayPal is making news the last couple days: they've decided to abandon the M$, Amazon and older Google markets entirely, deciding they're simply not worth bothering with financially.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

PayPal is making news the last couple days: they've decided to abandon the M$, Amazon and older Google markets entirely, deciding they're simply not worth bothering with financially.


http://www.cnet.com/news/paypal-to-microsoft-blackberry-and-amazon-kindle-buh-bye/

Not quite, they are abandoning their apps for MS Windows phone, Blackberry and Amazon Kindle Fire

They are still supporting their app on Google Android and iPhone.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

They are still supporting their app on Google Android and iPhone.

The details report that they're dropping support for the older Google models, but dropping the other platforms entirely (though part of that is, the newest app supposedly contains features which won't run on the older devices).

richardshagrin

@Crumbly Writer

If you think America has the best educated anything, you are wrong. Our schools had defects, but local school boards could influence what was taught and how. Now people in Washington DC with strange agenda like no child left behind (which means no child can advance very far) decide what gets taught, by controlling what gets paid for by Congress. And the Teachers Unions make sure no teacher puts in more effort than any other. Did I mention Teacher SAT scores average about 200 points lower than those for other majors? I suspect we are the land of poorly educated idiots.

sejintenej

@Ernest Bywater

Which is funny, because MS couldn't get any companies to put Win 10 on a phone until they bought one and made them do it. Now they're selling it off.

Thinking that I should leave the cleft stick age my son bought me a phone from Amazon made by a Florida company. Again W10; such a dog Amazon was forced to take it back.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@sejintenej

Thinking that I should leave the cleft stick age my son bought me a phone from Amazon made by a Florida company. Again W10; such a dog Amazon was forced to take it back.

And I'm sure the phone spent longer in shipping than it ever spent in your hot little hand!

graybyrd

Another Win10 Forced March Update

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/01/windows_10_nagware_no_way_out/

Once you get the "Pop-up Screen from Hell" you cannot deny it, refuse it, or opt out of it. Enjoy!

Microsoft: the American corporation that refuses to just take "no" for an answer!

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

Once you get the "Pop-up Screen from Hell" you cannot deny it, refuse it, or opt out of it.


I guess you can do a ctl/alt/del and end the task.

Hotmail (which is owned by MS) had something similar recently. They had a pop-up that covered your inbox that, if you declined their offer, would basically stay there (no way of closing it). I happened to click on the area at the top right to log off and it went away.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Go the the linked article. Look closely at the screen capture. Read it. Note the line that says that if the computer is shut down, Windows 10 will install when the computer is turned on again. I think MS is serious about pushing the Windows 10 upgrade.

I noted that within two hours of TheRegister posting that article nearly 200 comments had been posted, all of them critical of Microsoft's tactics.

But then again, until it happens to a person I suppose there's no point worrying about it.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

all of them critical of Microsoft's tactics.


My next laptop will be a Mac. I guess that means I'll be switching phones too.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Switch Blayde

Well it looks like I will just live without those critical updates until further notice. I don't have anything worth stealing and to boot I don't have the patience or money needed to install and learn a new system.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@docholladay

Well it looks like I will just live without those critical updates until further notice.


That's something else that's just plain weird: I've experienced it, and commenters on TheRegister confirm it. The "Check for Windows Update" process to get patches now takes an insanely long time. At first, I'd thought the system was corrupted, but that's not the case. Try leaving your computer online and running for nineteen hours to get the latest security patches for Windows 7!

Microsoft: please, just crawl off and die, dammit!

Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd

Microsoft: please, just crawl off and die, dammit!


due to making the mistake of buying the latest and greatest intel chip I'm forced to use Windows. I had to create a special install USB to install Win 7 Pro, but I got it done. Then I immediately turned off all updates and remote access by MS. No updates at all since it was put on several months back, just the disc install version. I've not problems at all with the system. But then, I'm connected to the Internet behind a good firewall with NAT for protection. For some reason (he says gloating) I'm not getting these nags screens at all. :-)

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Ernest Bywater

Cunning! As long as you don't let those "security" patches through, you're safe from the perp walk. Also, there's high praise online for the "never10.exe" registry tool that kills the GWX (get windows ten) infection.

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

The "Check for Windows Update" process to get patches now takes an insanely long time.


Not for me. It's actually rather fast. But after what I've read here I stopped doing updates.

sejintenej

@graybyrd

Once you get the "Pop-up Screen from Hell" you cannot deny it, refuse it, or opt out of it. Enjoy!

I got this, turned off power and went to bed. Next day I had W7 and no update demands!

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@sejintenej

So you dodged a bullet. That doesn't mean they're not gunning for you.

Speaking of destructive vulnerabilities, here's another Register link: how MS forced download/upgrade has severely endangered a volunteer anti-poaching group.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_satellite_link/

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